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Thread: Safety advice on wearing Uniform in public

  1. #16
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    I suppose it comes down to why people are or are not wearing uniform.

    When a 16 year old stands up for scouting values in uniform the world takes notice, when an entire HQ staff stop wearing uniform not even the focus groups they are following take notice.

    I suspect that even if the uniform was reduced to merely a group scarf the focus groups would give having to wear a "silly scarf" as a reason for not joining scouts.

    I would put uniform front and centre of a scout campaign to put our youth work front and centre of the political campaign on youth policy.

    I am a member of the World Wide Scout Movement, I am proud to come out as a Scout, time to stop hiding in the closet we know they can only chase you if you run.
    Last edited by Tony Ransley; 29-05-2017 at 02:11 PM.

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  3. #17
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testarossa View Post
    My response was that I prefer to have large numbers of members Scouting than low numbers wearing uniform. They voted to wear hoodies instead and it is their Unit, not mine. As long as they wear uniform to parade, it is their choice.
    so by that 'as long as they wear uniform to parade' can i assume that wasn't their choice?

    you're not suggesting that there's a time for wearing uniform and there's a time for not?

    In my humble opinion, members (regardless of whether they are a Youth Member, Leader or staff at HQ) should be allowed to wear whatever they feel comfortable in, whether that be uniform, an iScout hoody or locally designed clothing suitable for the event.

    Uniform is a privilege, not mandatory.

    Why do we get so hung up on it?
    yes but i don't understand why you said: 'as long as they wear it (uniform) to parade'. surely the vote was to wear hoodies?

    one minute you say it's a free personal choice and the next you say sometimes it's not. i'm confused.

    TM
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  4. #18
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    We're perhaps drifting more towards YP uniform than adult uniform with some of these posts so here's my 2pworth on that!

    We are strict on uniform. Its to be worn for flag break and flag down of every meeting unless the kids are told otherwise. We also do inspection. Why?

    Because its something that sets us apart from a "Youth group". TSA in their obsession with growth seem to be trying to make scouting into "something for everyone"... the UK's largest "Youth group". Personally I would rather we provided a focus on the things that our existing members want us to do, and provided a high quality programme to a much smaller number of committed kids. Uniform is one of the things that symbolises that commitment. If they're not willing to wear it, then they're not committed to being a member of the troop. I know there are many who disagree, who think the doors should be open to anyone regardless of their attitude. I hasten to add that we will take kids from any background, any religion, any race, any demographic. We will bend over backwards to provide Scouting for those who can't afford it. But they have to be willing to make, and uphold, their Scout Promise. And to us, they have to be willing to wear their uniform.

    Take the local rugby clubs. They expect their "uniform" to be worn to every practise - not just to the matches or awards ceremonies. Interestingly it is often the kids who are involved in those rugby clubs who turn up looking the smartest in Scout uniform.

    I'm not saying that the current shirt is the most appropriate uniform - but its what we have, and it should be worn with pride.

    As a slight aside, our DC frequently comments that it is the groups who are strictest on uniform that seem to have the best behaved kids, and seem to therefore be able to offer the most adventurous programmes.

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    We're perhaps drifting more towards YP uniform than adult uniform
    I would disagree Dan, my issue is not with the YP who generally wear the uniform which was "agreed" at the last consultation it is with HQ who have shied away from wearing that "agreed" uniform at every turn, undermining both the consultation and the unity of the movement. If HQ want to declare the uniform is a pink t shirt they have the power to do so regardless of anyone else views and that would be more honest than asking for members opinions then disregarding them. I suspect HQ is trying 'nudge' politics and spin to bring about the changes focus groups have told them will make Scouting more popular with those outside the movement. The alternative straegy would be to raise scoutings visibility by campaigning for fair and rational treatment of young people starting with our own members then embracing all the others.

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  8. #20
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    I suspect HQ is trying 'nudge' politics and spin to bring about the changes focus groups have told them will make Scouting more popular with those outside the movement. The alternative straegy would be to raise scoutings visibility by campaigning for fair and rational treatment of young people starting with our own members then embracing all the others.
    So is this some kind of strategy to attract adults?

    We certainly dont need a strategy to attract young people at the moment, when we have 50,000 on our waiting lists.

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    So is this some kind of strategy to attract adults?

    We certainly dont need a strategy to attract young people at the moment, when we have 50,000 on our waiting lists.
    It is an alternative strategy to attract the young adult demographic those who want to take part in positive community action and address issues but are reluctant to engage with party politics.

  10. #22
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    As a slight aside, our DC frequently comments that it is the groups who are strictest on uniform that seem to have the best behaved kids, and seem to therefore be able to offer the most adventurous programmes.
    All the compliant kids do as their told keep their heads down and get to do activities?

    I think uniform is a red herring, having well behaved kids allow you to do more adventurous activities. Well behaved kids are probably more likely to comply and wear uniform. I know when I've had the odd Smiffy or two I've had to have a hard look at some of the activities we do and put a line through some where I needed kids to do as they're told, knowing Smiffy would struggle with that, and that might well make it more unsafe. If enforcing uniform pushed Smiffy away...is that really the answer?
    Ian Wilkins
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  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    So is this some kind of strategy to attract adults?

    We certainly dont need a strategy to attract young people at the moment, when we have 50,000 on our waiting lists.
    Diversion - that's not a massive number it's only 10% across most groups and if I look locally (OK 9 rural groups may not be representative), then all of our waiting list are in about 3 groups. Of the other 6 I'd say 3 are very keen to increase numbers, but can't, they have no waiting list and no parent on the waiting list of a popular group would consider transferring. I often think that if all groups offered as good a programme as the best then we'd have no waiting list because the capacity is there, it's the distribution of that capacity which is the issue.

  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    All the compliant kids do as their told keep their heads down and get to do activities?

    I think uniform is a red herring, having well behaved kids allow you to do more adventurous activities. Well behaved kids are probably more likely to comply and wear uniform. I know when I've had the odd Smiffy or two I've had to have a hard look at some of the activities we do and put a line through some where I needed kids to do as they're told, knowing Smiffy would struggle with that, and that might well make it more unsafe. If enforcing uniform pushed Smiffy away...is that really the answer?
    Quite.

    I think you get the kids your scouting attracts - if you're strict on uniform, you'll get young folk to which that appeals. Across our county, there are a range of Troops and leaders with their own leadership techniques - I don't think there is a correlation between well behaved kids being able to do adventurous activities. Where that correlation might actually be is, the leader team that insists on high standards with uniform are possibly more prone to having high standards with their program - although that isn't a hard and fast rule either.

    What I mean is, the kids being well behaved isn't because they wear a uniform, its because they're more prone to being orderly anyway - ergo, its more down to leadership choices.

  13. #25
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    I think what i'm trying to say is that being strict on things like uniforms puts off those kids who just want to come along to mess around / chat with their mates, and means we only get those who actually WANT to be Scouts.

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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  15. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    I think what i'm trying to say is that being strict on things like uniforms puts off those kids who just want to come along to mess around / chat with their mates, and means we only get those who actually WANT to be Scouts.
    And with that i completely agree - on several occasions I've seen ineffective sections turned round by new leaders, or the existing ones, deciding to come down hard on uniform and attendance and engagement in the "boring" stuff as well as the exciting activities.

  16. #27
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    I was really hypocritical on uniform, I'd be doing uniform inspections in an untucked shirt and navy shorts with tights (or just shorts in the summer). In my defence, women's shirts are really hard to tuck in and trousers don't come in "large hips, small waist, stumpy leg" size. I've got a pair of craghoppers I wear for outdoor instructing and my god are they hideous on me.

    I think it's around trying to give across a modern and "cool" image of scouting, but if HQ don't think the uniform is cool enough then why are we having to wear it? I don't dislike our uniform really, but I think I prefer the whole polo shirt and necker with a friendship knot like our chief scout and youth commissioners wear. Much more practical but I guess not very smart. Hmm.
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  17. #28
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    Hi Nyika hard to imagine any e scouter looking hideous

    I favour practicality over smartness, hence favouring an uniform outdoor jacket with a range of optional scoutwear. Of course all alternatives to the shirt would need to accommodate scout badges some how.
    Last edited by Tony Ransley; 30-05-2017 at 06:32 PM.

  18. #29
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    Hi Nyika hard to imagine any e scouter looking hideous

    I favour practicality over smartness, hence favouring an uniform outdoor jacket with a range of optional scoutwear. Of course all alternatives to the shirt would need to accommodate scout badges some how.
    I dont see anything wrong with a shirt as uniform... but perhaps it should be more like this kind of shirt:
    http://www.craghoppers.com/kiwi-long...irt-cedar.html

    ie something thats designed for outdoor use, comfortable, hard wearing, and doesnt need ironing

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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    Senior Member oneiros's Avatar
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    I'd settle for something that fits; mine billows at the waist, but is way too short in the arms...

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