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  1. #16
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    It isn't clear from the OP that the 'allegation of bullying' was in a Scouting context. We can sometimes touch these kids lives at more than one point and be aware of an issue in a different environment. The Leader who knows then has a choice: make sure that the kid's mistake in one place comes crashing round his ears in Scouts too, or give him a chance to do better here. However, when I've been in that situation, I've simply kept quiet, only the kid knows that I know. Not what seems to have happened here, telling the other leaders that I know something but I'm not going to tell you what.
    The allegation has been made that this happened during a meeting. So in my opinion not telling us the full extent of the allegation is preventing the other Leaders from doing everything they can to prevent bullying.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    The allegation has been made that this happened during a meeting. So in my opinion not telling us the full extent of the allegation is preventing the other Leaders from doing everything they can to prevent bullying.
    I would agree completely. You should perhaps speak to your GSL, or if they are involved your DC.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Certainly the GSL should know but not convinced everyone should until the issue is resolved and the whole event can be presented. Only then can you learn lessons which you can take forward into the various sections. Jump the gun and it tends to get very messy in some shape or form.

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

  5. #19
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    If it's an issue within the section then all leaders should be aware - to do anything else is negligence. What happens if another leaders sens the bully and bullyee on a task together???
    Roger Woods
    Cub Scout Leader, Pegasus Pack,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton
    www.sawley-scouts.org.uk

    NSRA Air Rifle instructor
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  7. #20
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger-uk View Post
    If it's an issue within the section then all leaders should be aware - to do anything else is negligence. What happens if another leaders sens the bully and bullyee on a task together???
    All leaders *within that section* should certainly be made aware.

    I'm not sure i'd see the need to tell the Beaver Leader about a bullying issue at Scouts unless that BSL was also helping at Scouts.

    The GSL should definitely be made aware.

    I am aware of at least one bullying issue that went further than it should have done because leaders didn't talk to each other. Had the leaders told each other about each of the individual incidents they saw, then a big picture would soon have become visible. As it was it took some time and some chance remarks by leaders before it was picked up on.

    It is therefore wise at the end of a section meeting for the leaders to do a very quick "hot debrief" of any issues that have occured. We do likewise each evening at camp. That way patterns can quickly be identified and bullying stamped on.
    Last edited by recneps; 12-06-2017 at 12:30 PM.
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  9. #21
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    All leaders *within that section* should certainly be made aware.

    I'm not sure i'd see the need to tell the Beaver Leader about a bullying issue at Scouts unless that BSL was also helping at Scouts.

    The GSL should definitely be made aware.

    I am aware of at least one bullying issue that went further than it should have done because leaders didn't talk to each other. Had the leaders told each other about each of the individual incidents they saw, then a big picture would soon have become visible. As it was it took some time and some chance remarks by leaders before it was picked up on.

    It is therefore wise at the end of a section meeting for the leaders to do a very quick "hot debrief" of any issues that have occured. We do likewise each evening at camp. That way patterns can quickly be identified and bullying stamped on.

    Agreed
    Roger Woods
    Cub Scout Leader, Pegasus Pack,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton
    www.sawley-scouts.org.uk

    NSRA Air Rifle instructor
    GNAS Archery Instructor
    Radio amateur (G8XAN)

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  11. #22
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice. It has confirmed I was correct to challenge this.

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  13. #23
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    I would ask where the parents are in this.

    If I had a leader that was saying they did not feel they could discuss an issue of bullying with the rest of their team I would insist that they do discuss it with the parent of the child that is being bullied. There might be other things happening outside of the Scouts that the parent is aware of. There is no need to tell the parent the identity of the child that is alleged to be the bully.

    I would ask the leader to ask the parent whether or not they want the rest of the leadership team to know what is going on.

    I always try to think about how I would want to be treated if I was the parent. I would want to know:

    a) that something is going on - so that I can monitor the situation at home and join the dots with things that might be happening at school,
    b) that something is being done - even if that is just 'we will keep an eye on things'.
    c) that I would be consulted about any interventions that might affect my child.

    Bullying has a complex emotional affect on children. What we might see in the hour a week that we interact with a child can be the tip of the iceberg or just a flash in the pan - but we can not know which it is.

    So, I would tell your leader: "speak to the parents - if they agree that none of the other leaders should know, then so be it, if they say that the leadership team need to know, then that should be honoured too".

    Richard

  14. #24
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    I would ask where the parents are in this.

    If I had a leader that was saying they did not feel they could discuss an issue of bullying with the rest of their team I would insist that they do discuss it with the parent of the child that is being bullied. There might be other things happening outside of the Scouts that the parent is aware of. There is no need to tell the parent the identity of the child that is alleged to be the bully.

    I would ask the leader to ask the parent whether or not they want the rest of the leadership team to know what is going on.

    I always try to think about how I would want to be treated if I was the parent. I would want to know:

    a) that something is going on - so that I can monitor the situation at home and join the dots with things that might be happening at school,
    b) that something is being done - even if that is just 'we will keep an eye on things'.
    c) that I would be consulted about any interventions that might affect my child.

    Bullying has a complex emotional affect on children. What we might see in the hour a week that we interact with a child can be the tip of the iceberg or just a flash in the pan - but we can not know which it is.

    So, I would tell your leader: "speak to the parents - if they agree that none of the other leaders should know, then so be it, if they say that the leadership team need to know, then that should be honoured too".

    Richard

    Bullying has many causes and may well be a reflection of something happening at home. I don't think that it is as cut and dried and " consult the parents".

    What if the Bullying is in fact a cry for help because of some form of abuse at home?

    By consulting the parent there is a possibility of making the situation worse. It may result in a cover up of an abuse. Moreover, even if there is no abuse here, then the approach to the parents sends out a clear signal to everyone else that when things get difficult, these guys go to the parents. That may well mean that the kids with serious issues at home never speak up at all.

    In my time there have been several instances where kids have come to us about domestic issues, (not abuse as such)where they needed a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen to their troubles. None would have come to us had they thought we would have taken their problems back to mum and dad.

    It is all fine and well for parents to stomp their feet and say, I should have been told, but there are wider issues.
    Ewan Scott

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  16. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Bullying has many causes and may well be a reflection of something happening at home. I don't think that it is as cut and dried and " consult the parents".

    What if the Bullying is in fact a cry for help because of some form of abuse at home?

    By consulting the parent there is a possibility of making the situation worse. It may result in a cover up of an abuse. Moreover, even if there is no abuse here, then the approach to the parents sends out a clear signal to everyone else that when things get difficult, these guys go to the parents. That may well mean that the kids with serious issues at home never speak up at all.

    In my time there have been several instances where kids have come to us about domestic issues, (not abuse as such)where they needed a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen to their troubles. None would have come to us had they thought we would have taken their problems back to mum and dad.

    It is all fine and well for parents to stomp their feet and say, I should have been told, but there are wider issues.
    What you describe is not the bullying that the OP was talking about, and I was referring to.

    If I were to suspect that there was an issue at home, there would be only one cause of action: an immediate referral via the DC to the appropriate authorities.

    I am not talking about the Scout that bursts into tears because they had a row with mum or dad, but any hint of abusive behaviour by a parent must be reported as soon as possible. Any other course of action could mean social services missing a link in the chain that might save a child's life.

    We are not trained social workers.

    R.

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