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Thread: Bullying procedure

  1. #16
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    It isn't clear from the OP that the 'allegation of bullying' was in a Scouting context. We can sometimes touch these kids lives at more than one point and be aware of an issue in a different environment. The Leader who knows then has a choice: make sure that the kid's mistake in one place comes crashing round his ears in Scouts too, or give him a chance to do better here. However, when I've been in that situation, I've simply kept quiet, only the kid knows that I know. Not what seems to have happened here, telling the other leaders that I know something but I'm not going to tell you what.
    The allegation has been made that this happened during a meeting. So in my opinion not telling us the full extent of the allegation is preventing the other Leaders from doing everything they can to prevent bullying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    The allegation has been made that this happened during a meeting. So in my opinion not telling us the full extent of the allegation is preventing the other Leaders from doing everything they can to prevent bullying.
    I would agree completely. You should perhaps speak to your GSL, or if they are involved your DC.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Certainly the GSL should know but not convinced everyone should until the issue is resolved and the whole event can be presented. Only then can you learn lessons which you can take forward into the various sections. Jump the gun and it tends to get very messy in some shape or form.

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    If it's an issue within the section then all leaders should be aware - to do anything else is negligence. What happens if another leaders sens the bully and bullyee on a task together???
    Roger Woods
    Cub Scout Leader, Pegasus Pack,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton
    www.sawley-scouts.org.uk

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger-uk View Post
    If it's an issue within the section then all leaders should be aware - to do anything else is negligence. What happens if another leaders sens the bully and bullyee on a task together???
    All leaders *within that section* should certainly be made aware.

    I'm not sure i'd see the need to tell the Beaver Leader about a bullying issue at Scouts unless that BSL was also helping at Scouts.

    The GSL should definitely be made aware.

    I am aware of at least one bullying issue that went further than it should have done because leaders didn't talk to each other. Had the leaders told each other about each of the individual incidents they saw, then a big picture would soon have become visible. As it was it took some time and some chance remarks by leaders before it was picked up on.

    It is therefore wise at the end of a section meeting for the leaders to do a very quick "hot debrief" of any issues that have occured. We do likewise each evening at camp. That way patterns can quickly be identified and bullying stamped on.
    Last edited by recneps; 12-06-2017 at 12:30 PM.
    Dan Spencer

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  9. #21
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    All leaders *within that section* should certainly be made aware.

    I'm not sure i'd see the need to tell the Beaver Leader about a bullying issue at Scouts unless that BSL was also helping at Scouts.

    The GSL should definitely be made aware.

    I am aware of at least one bullying issue that went further than it should have done because leaders didn't talk to each other. Had the leaders told each other about each of the individual incidents they saw, then a big picture would soon have become visible. As it was it took some time and some chance remarks by leaders before it was picked up on.

    It is therefore wise at the end of a section meeting for the leaders to do a very quick "hot debrief" of any issues that have occured. We do likewise each evening at camp. That way patterns can quickly be identified and bullying stamped on.

    Agreed
    Roger Woods
    Cub Scout Leader, Pegasus Pack,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton
    www.sawley-scouts.org.uk

    NSRA Air Rifle instructor
    GNAS Archery Instructor
    Radio amateur (G8XAN)

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    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice. It has confirmed I was correct to challenge this.

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    I would ask where the parents are in this.

    If I had a leader that was saying they did not feel they could discuss an issue of bullying with the rest of their team I would insist that they do discuss it with the parent of the child that is being bullied. There might be other things happening outside of the Scouts that the parent is aware of. There is no need to tell the parent the identity of the child that is alleged to be the bully.

    I would ask the leader to ask the parent whether or not they want the rest of the leadership team to know what is going on.

    I always try to think about how I would want to be treated if I was the parent. I would want to know:

    a) that something is going on - so that I can monitor the situation at home and join the dots with things that might be happening at school,
    b) that something is being done - even if that is just 'we will keep an eye on things'.
    c) that I would be consulted about any interventions that might affect my child.

    Bullying has a complex emotional affect on children. What we might see in the hour a week that we interact with a child can be the tip of the iceberg or just a flash in the pan - but we can not know which it is.

    So, I would tell your leader: "speak to the parents - if they agree that none of the other leaders should know, then so be it, if they say that the leadership team need to know, then that should be honoured too".

    Richard

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    I would ask where the parents are in this.

    If I had a leader that was saying they did not feel they could discuss an issue of bullying with the rest of their team I would insist that they do discuss it with the parent of the child that is being bullied. There might be other things happening outside of the Scouts that the parent is aware of. There is no need to tell the parent the identity of the child that is alleged to be the bully.

    I would ask the leader to ask the parent whether or not they want the rest of the leadership team to know what is going on.

    I always try to think about how I would want to be treated if I was the parent. I would want to know:

    a) that something is going on - so that I can monitor the situation at home and join the dots with things that might be happening at school,
    b) that something is being done - even if that is just 'we will keep an eye on things'.
    c) that I would be consulted about any interventions that might affect my child.

    Bullying has a complex emotional affect on children. What we might see in the hour a week that we interact with a child can be the tip of the iceberg or just a flash in the pan - but we can not know which it is.

    So, I would tell your leader: "speak to the parents - if they agree that none of the other leaders should know, then so be it, if they say that the leadership team need to know, then that should be honoured too".

    Richard

    Bullying has many causes and may well be a reflection of something happening at home. I don't think that it is as cut and dried and " consult the parents".

    What if the Bullying is in fact a cry for help because of some form of abuse at home?

    By consulting the parent there is a possibility of making the situation worse. It may result in a cover up of an abuse. Moreover, even if there is no abuse here, then the approach to the parents sends out a clear signal to everyone else that when things get difficult, these guys go to the parents. That may well mean that the kids with serious issues at home never speak up at all.

    In my time there have been several instances where kids have come to us about domestic issues, (not abuse as such)where they needed a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen to their troubles. None would have come to us had they thought we would have taken their problems back to mum and dad.

    It is all fine and well for parents to stomp their feet and say, I should have been told, but there are wider issues.
    Ewan Scott

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  16. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Bullying has many causes and may well be a reflection of something happening at home. I don't think that it is as cut and dried and " consult the parents".

    What if the Bullying is in fact a cry for help because of some form of abuse at home?

    By consulting the parent there is a possibility of making the situation worse. It may result in a cover up of an abuse. Moreover, even if there is no abuse here, then the approach to the parents sends out a clear signal to everyone else that when things get difficult, these guys go to the parents. That may well mean that the kids with serious issues at home never speak up at all.

    In my time there have been several instances where kids have come to us about domestic issues, (not abuse as such)where they needed a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen to their troubles. None would have come to us had they thought we would have taken their problems back to mum and dad.

    It is all fine and well for parents to stomp their feet and say, I should have been told, but there are wider issues.
    What you describe is not the bullying that the OP was talking about, and I was referring to.

    If I were to suspect that there was an issue at home, there would be only one cause of action: an immediate referral via the DC to the appropriate authorities.

    I am not talking about the Scout that bursts into tears because they had a row with mum or dad, but any hint of abusive behaviour by a parent must be reported as soon as possible. Any other course of action could mean social services missing a link in the chain that might save a child's life.

    We are not trained social workers.

    R.

  17. #26
    Senior Member Ihatecamping's Avatar
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    What are people's recommendations of how to manage heavy hints from a parent that one of our Cubs is bullying other Cubs, but at school?

    The individual concerned is a proper little sod, gobby and irritating, but I haven't seen him bullying anyone at Cubs.

    I don't yet know the names of those being bullied (allegedly), although i could ask for them.

    I guess I should just wait to see what happens at Cubs, rather than being pro-active and separating individuals. It's just annoying having something like this hanging over us before Cubs evenings.
    The long march through the institutions is nearly complete.

  18. #27
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihatecamping View Post
    What are people's recommendations of how to manage heavy hints from a parent that one of our Cubs is bullying other Cubs, but at school?

    The individual concerned is a proper little sod, gobby and irritating, but I haven't seen him bullying anyone at Cubs.

    I don't yet know the names of those being bullied (allegedly), although i could ask for them.

    I guess I should just wait to see what happens at Cubs, rather than being pro-active and separating individuals. It's just annoying having something like this hanging over us before Cubs evenings.
    I'd try and get beyond "heavy hits". i.e. Talk to the parent who is dropping the hints and ask if there is an actual concern. Try and find out whether its an issue that the school is already dealing with. If it is, then if you have a relationship with the school, try asking the relevant teacher at the school (obviously not every leader has this option - we're quite lucky to have a great relationship with the local primary)
    Dan Spencer

    Group Scout Leader 66th Bath
    Deputy District Commissioner (Programme) - City of Bath District
    Nights Away Adviser and member of District Executive Committee - City of Bath District
    Member of Avon County Appointments Advisory Committee
    Event organiser "Be Prepared" Resilience Events
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    Web designer


    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

  19. #28
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihatecamping View Post
    What are people's recommendations of how to manage heavy hints from a parent that one of our Cubs is bullying other Cubs, but at school?

    The individual concerned is a proper little sod, gobby and irritating, but I haven't seen him bullying anyone at Cubs.

    I don't yet know the names of those being bullied (allegedly), although i could ask for them.

    I guess I should just wait to see what happens at Cubs, rather than being pro-active and separating individuals. It's just annoying having something like this hanging over us before Cubs evenings.
    I you don't have any evidence of it happening at Cubs, I'd suggest covering bullying on a general basis. There's not much more you can do.
    Chris Hawes, CSL (Akela) and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group (on sabbatical); District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District.
    Web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.


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    We have a similar problem developing, except, the parent dropping the hints, she thinks her kid is being bullied but he's actually part of some sort of mutual bullying cooperative, where a group of about 5 or 6 just can't leave each other alone.

    Anyway, that's by the by. All we can do is monitor the situation at Scouts, (they're all 11 years old...)

    We're currently running social workshops, exploring concepts like causality (as mentioned elsewhere), responsibility, what thank you and sorry really mean, hurt and respect. At the end of it, we'll tie it all together and hopefully they'll be able to make the link. Its just ten minutes of interactive chat at the beginning of each night. The young folk enjoy it. We praise those that do behave and are reasonable, and challenge the group as a whole to break the vicious circle of this weird hurt cooperative they've got going on.

    No idea if it'll work right enough, but the young folk know we're on it and aware.

    The school in this seems to be ineffective going by parental chit chat... Which is a shame...

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    It is possible for someone demonstrating bullying behaviour to be a victim as well. That the bully has such a hold over the person that they bully others on request or to not fall out with the gang due to fear of reprisals.

    Most criminal gang behaviour is based on that. If they want to be part of the gang, they have to mug someone at knife point. And there is no way out if the gang, not without sustained reprisals.


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