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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Bullying procedure

    Hi all,

    An allegation of bullying has been made to a fellow Leader and they are refusing to discuss it with the wider team apparently due to 'safeguarding'. They are saying that TSA training states that the name must not be released as this may cause us to pre-judge.

    I have not accepted this and have insisted that all allegations should be shared with the team and discussed. We are all adults and trained in safeguarding and above all we should be trusted to act in a professional and safe manor.

    I am very upset with this and would like to know what you all feel. Am I over-reacting?

  2. #2
    Assistant ESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Depends if the alleged bullying involves an adult or not
    Last edited by shiftypete; 10-06-2017 at 07:30 PM.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Depends if the alleged bullying involves and adult or not
    That was my initial though and has now been ruled out.

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    Member Ben Watson's Avatar
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    i have recently had an allegation of bullying within our troop, as we are a rural community the leaders tend to know the scouts families outside of scouts as well so this makes things a bit delicate however i feel completely comfortable sharing this situation with my asl, and my gsl, i also shared it with all 3 adc's (because of the nature of some of the allegations) I know the families well on one side of the argument, my asl knows the family well on the other side of the argument, one of the adc's has a nephew that is also implicated, we have all discussed it and feel happy we are all being objective, i cannot see how not sharing the matter would help, surely you would be opening yourself up for a lot of problems because i am sure it states somewhere that your communications with scouts and parents should be "open" as in another leader should be seeing them etc?

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  6. #5
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    There may very well be a good reason why they cannot discuss it with you and the other members of the leadership team. Yes, it may be a good idea to discuss it but also don't be quick to judge when you don't have all the facts.
    Proud Beaver Scout Leader of a bunch of ankle biters.

  7. #6
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    Unless the issue were to involve an adult, which may need to be dealt with more carefully, so it's YP to YP bullying, so far as I am concerned there cannot be secrets in the Leadership Team.

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  9. #7
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Unless the issue were to involve an adult, which may need to be dealt with more carefully, so it's YP to YP bullying, so far as I am concerned there cannot be secrets in the Leadership Team.
    Yep. Confirmed as a YP to YP bullying allegation.

    I really do not get it. We are basically being accused that we cannot be trusted to act responsibly with the information. That we will 'pre-judge' the accused and that only this leader is capable of acting impartially. I do not accept this at all and I think it is putting the other leaders in a position in which we may not be casting our eyes in the correct direction to see if this YP is bullying or not.

    I am really frustrated by this and we have had heated words over it. In my eyes we are basically being told that we cannot be trusted with this information to act responsibly which sits very uncomfortable with me.

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  11. #8
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    While I don't know the ins and outs of your precise case I would be quite concerned about only one Leader handling it. We have occasionally had such issues, and they have always been discussed with the whole team to see who had seen what and properly build up details about what was happening. That, to some extent though not fully, even included YLs who may have seen things or been told things adults hadn't.

    I agree this seems very odd.

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    I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but have you considered the possilbilty that it might be better for you not to know this piece of infomation, that way it cannot be later used against you?
    Proud Beaver Scout Leader of a bunch of ankle biters.

  14. #10
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamieson90 View Post
    I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but have you considered the possilbilty that it might be better for you not to know this piece of infomation, that way it cannot be later used against you?
    I cannot personally think of any situation in which this would happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamieson90 View Post
    I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but have you considered the possilbilty that it might be better for you not to know this piece of infomation, that way it cannot be later used against you?
    If the accusation does not include any adult issues, I cannot see how that can possibly be the case.

    Other than Safeguarding issues involving adults there is to me no place for secrets in a Leadership team.

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  17. #12
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    "Safeguarding issues" can also be between, for example, a young person and another young(er) person without any adult involvement and come to the attention of a leader (for example, through police enquiries).
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


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  18. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    "Safeguarding issues" can also be between, for example, a young person and another young(er) person without any adult involvement and come to the attention of a leader (for example, through police enquiries).
    I would still consider that any such issues need to be known about by the whole adult Leadership Team unless legally not possible, in which case I would expect that explanation to be given.

  19. #14
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    It isn't clear from the OP that the 'allegation of bullying' was in a Scouting context. We can sometimes touch these kids lives at more than one point and be aware of an issue in a different environment. The Leader who knows then has a choice: make sure that the kid's mistake in one place comes crashing round his ears in Scouts too, or give him a chance to do better here. However, when I've been in that situation, I've simply kept quiet, only the kid knows that I know. Not what seems to have happened here, telling the other leaders that I know something but I'm not going to tell you what.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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  21. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    telling the other leaders that I know something but I'm not going to tell you what.
    Agreed, that is an incredibly divisive thing to do. Discuss or keep your mouth shut entirely. Games of 20 questions are of no help to anyone.

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