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  1. #16
    Assistant ESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    They are Network.

    So the camp is now a joint Explorer/Network camp.

    Former Explorers hanging around once they reach 18 are now Network taking part in linking activities.

    And yes, we do have a local Network, and yes, I do encourage mine to go to that, but sometimes they are bad pennies, what can you do?
    That is exactly how we do it too and we don;t have to DBS them either as they are going on camp as a youth member and are not in a supervisory capacity over under 18s. We do keep to the hard rule that no 18 over 18 can share a tent or room with an under 18 year old.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  2. #17
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    That is exactly how we do it too and we don;t have to DBS them either as they are going on camp as a youth member and are not in a supervisory capacity over under 18s. We do keep to the hard rule that no 18 over 18 can share a tent or room with an under 18 year old.
    And if they end up all sat on the floor in a long line giving each other shoulder massages, they tell me the over 18 can only be a receiver not a giver. Reader...I backed away slowly.
    Last edited by ianw; 19-06-2017 at 03:35 PM.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - World Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2016 - May 2017
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by claire.shadbolt View Post
    I totally get that. What I do not understand is why family camps are different. The parents are there as participants. They do not have responsibility for kids who are not their own. So why are we DBSing them?
    If you don't get parents helping you out on a family camp you're not doing it properly, in my view.

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  5. #19
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    It would be so much simpler to run it the same as schools, by academic year. We discussed but never got around to implementing it at the last Group, but having a big move in September would have answered many issues we had with moves throughout the year - this cut at the date of birth seems odd considering they will be carrying on as normal in 6th form with field trips etc.

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

  6. #20
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    We have no network in our area, and I don't think we've had anyone leave after they turned 18 anyway. (So far, they've gone to uni before their 18th.)

    We do get them coming back for meetings and trips, since its mostly a social thing anyway, there isn't much difference in the way they all behave with each other.

    It seems odd to me that we need to split peer groups up at such an arbitrary date, but I understand we've had that conversation several times before here and that it is a result of legislation in England.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    It would be so much simpler to run it the same as schools, by academic year. We discussed but never got around to implementing it at the last Group, but having a big move in September would have answered many issues we had with moves throughout the year - this cut at the date of birth seems odd considering they will be carrying on as normal in 6th form with field trips etc.
    We have exactly the same at the other end in Beavers, children want to move with their class not their age peers.
    'Simba'

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    It seems odd to me that we need to split peer groups up at such an arbitrary date, but I understand we've had that conversation several times before here and that it is a result of legislation in England.
    If it is *English* legislation, I wonder why there isn't a SV (Scottish Variant)?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsmum View Post
    We have exactly the same at the other end in Beavers, children want to move with their class not their age peers.
    I find they want to move with their Scouting peer group, which the +/- 6 months on most Sections does allow for.

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  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsmum View Post
    We have exactly the same at the other end in Beavers, children want to move with their class not their age peers.
    We have the same at Cubs too, but I'm in two minds over whether moving by school year would be any better. For one, it gives the youngest in the year the chance to be the oldest in Cubs for a while. We're aware that those 'left behind' in Cubs come September can feel like they've outgrown Cubs, but we try to give them more responsibility and it can work really well. I also find it takes a while to settle down when we have too many young ones joining us in one go. The idea of replacing half the pack in one go each September fills me with dread!

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    claire.shadbolt (20-06-2017)

  12. #24
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingstonCubber View Post
    We have the same at Cubs too, but I'm in two minds over whether moving by school year would be any better. For one, it gives the youngest in the year the chance to be the oldest in Cubs for a while. We're aware that those 'left behind' in Cubs come September can feel like they've outgrown Cubs, but we try to give them more responsibility and it can work really well. I also find it takes a while to settle down when we have too many young ones joining us in one go. The idea of replacing half the pack in one go each September fills me with dread!
    Wouldn't it be a Third of the pack?

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    Wouldn't it be a Third of the pack?
    Well Cubs lasts for 2.5 years so it wouldn't work anyway!

    You'd have to make it either 2 or 3 years long to fit in with school years, so either a third or a half depending on what you chose.

  14. #26
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    It's a long time ago now, pos about 8 years so don't quote me. I think the model we discussed would ahve been a bit like this;

    Age School Yr Section School Stage
    05/06 1 Beavers* Primary School * From 6th Birthday
    06/07 2 Beavers Primary School
    07/08 3 Beavers Primary School
    08/09 4 Cubs Primary School
    09/10 5 Cubs Primary School
    10/11 6 Cubs Primary School
    11/12 7 Scouts Secondary School
    12/13 8 Scouts Secondary School
    13/14 9 Scouts Secondary School
    14/15 10 Explorers GCSE
    15/16 11 Explorers GCSE
    16/17 12 Explorers A
    17/18 13 Explorers A
    18/19 Network University/Work
    19/20 Network University/Work
    20/21 Network University/Work
    21/22 Network Work/University
    22/23 Network Work/University
    23/24 Network Work
    24/25 Network Work
    25/67 Leader Work
    67/?? Leader Retired
    ?? Knackered

    In fact I've added the Network bits as they didn't exist when we looked at it which gives you an indication of how long ago. I think the 'stopper' was how to actually make the change from the current position and non of us were that stressed about it to actually make it happen. I still think it has its merits and whenever threads like this crop up it reminds me.

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  15. #27
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    In Scotland the school system is slightly different again with them not necc starting school until 5+ and then secondary starting after 7 years of primary. This means we have children in P6 in Scouts which is really wrong
    'Simba'

  16. #28
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsmum View Post
    In Scotland the school system is slightly different again with them not necc starting school until 5+ and then secondary starting after 7 years of primary. This means we have children in P6 in Scouts which is really wrong
    Why and in what why is it wrong?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsmum View Post
    In Scotland the school system is slightly different again with them not necc starting school until 5+ and then secondary starting after 7 years of primary. This means we have children in P6 in Scouts which is really wrong
    Why and in what why is it wrong?
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  17. #29
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Actually it might have been Cubs from Y3 and Scouts Y6, vaguely remember a discussion about it being 'better' for them to move from Cubs to Scouts a year before they move to Secondary School?
    I don't know the structure in Scotland but surely the Scotland School Years could be adapted in a similar way based on the ages they are in each year?

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    Actually it might have been Cubs from Y3 and Scouts Y6, vaguely remember a discussion about it being 'better' for them to move from Cubs to Scouts a year before they move to Secondary School?
    Interesting. However, I quite like the way Scouts cuts across the school years. Kids tend to socialise predominantly with others from their school year. I think it's great if kids are encouraged to interact with a wider age range, and I think the current system does that more. Moving as a block encourages Cubs to interact more with that block rather than the pack as a whole.

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