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Thread: Interesting issue with knives

  1. #1
    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
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    Interesting issue with knives

    Just seen this post over the fence and it does bring up an interesting situation especially as the OP is aware of at least one colleague being prosecuted for just this.....

    PEN KNIVES

    Do you put these on your kit lists for Scouts and Explorers to bring to camp?

    If you do, please be aware that parents buying them for their kids are "proxy buying" which is against the law.

    If a shop assistant is caught "proxy selling" then they could be fined £5000 and get a 6 month jail sentence. They will also more than likely lose their job!

    Please also be aware that if you buy pen knives in bulk, then sell them to parents to get around the above then this is the exact same thing and is also breaking the law.

    Working in retail myself I am finding I am having to refuse more and more pen knife sales as parents are trying to buy them for their Scouts and Explorers to go to camp.
    How are we going to get around this one given that it would appear that this rule is being enforced much more than previously

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    Doesn’t say anything about proxy buying here.

    https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

  3. #3
    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
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    Indeed when researching this I can find laws against proxy purchases of alcohol and tobacco but not for any other age restricted products

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    I can't find anything either, not sure this is a thing...

    Is there a broader law somewhere that prohibits the supply of weapons or a law that makes a person who supplies a 'weapon' culpable if its use in a crime?

    Maybe that's what they're thinking of?

  5. #5
    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
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    No, it would appear the law they are thinking of is the one that makes it an offence supply alcohol to an adult if you reasonably believe they are buying it on behalf of a child

    And the corresponding offence that applies to tobacco (only added when the smoking age went from 16 to 18)

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    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    As in scouts we do not use them or carry them in public - Then this law does not apply to us. We use knives on private camps, or within the boundaries of our own private land. Their are no proxy buying laws adhering to knives that I know of as there are no age restrictions on the ownership of knives, just restrictions on the type, and carrying them in public.

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    It has been my tradition to give scouts sheath knives at the end of their first summer camp, guess I am for it now,

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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    As in scouts we do not use them or carry them in public - Then this law does not apply to us. We use knives on private camps, or within the boundaries of our own private land. Their are no proxy buying laws adhering to knives that I know of as there are no age restrictions on the ownership of knives, just restrictions on the type, and carrying them in public.
    For clarity a Scout camp site counts as a public place for purposes of knife law.

    There is no law re proxy purchase I know of though!

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    I bought a knife for my 6year old. Can somebody show me the law that I broke?

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    If a child approaches you and says "they won't sell me any beer in that shop, can you get a bottle for me?" and you go into the shop, buy a bottle of beer, come out and give it to the child, that is proxy buying.

    If you buy a couple of bottles of beer, take them home and share them with your child, that is not proxy buying. Giving alcohol to your child is not illegal (if they are over the age of five), and buying the alcohol that you give to your child is not illegal.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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    There is no offence of proxy selling knives - and having nosed at a few councils trading standards advice, I'm sure of that. However, it is entirely at the retailers discretion as to who they sell what to (provided it doesn't become statutory discrimination - i.e race etc). As we've all seen despite the law only restricting alcohol under 18, many supermarkets operate a "check 21" type policy. So if you go in saying I want a knife for my ten year old, they may refuse and would be perfectly at liberty to do so.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    I bought a knife for my 6year old. Can somebody show me the law that I broke?

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    was it POR rule 17.39 by any chance?



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    It would appear that the OP on 1st FB was Scottish. There are different laws from England and Wales.


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    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    I think the person who posted is getter confused with law and what his company policy may be.


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    Advice in Scotland...

    This excerpt is from South Ayrshire Cooncil's licencing department (concerned with the sale of knifes).

    11. Proxy selling
    LACORS have also recognised that a sale to someone buying on behalf of someone that is
    too young to make the purchase themselves, or so-called proxy selling, is not illegal. This
    reflects the fact that many young people have perfectly legitimate need for the use of knives
    and knife blades but, because of the prohibitions described above, cannot purchase them for
    themselves and have to rely on adults such as parents and guardians to purchase them on
    their behalf.
    Individual retailers may wish to adopt their own policies on where it might be appropriate to
    allow such a sale to proceed.

    (LACORS is the now-replaced local authority guidelines on licencing...)


    https://www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk/do...uly%202010.pdf


    A few years old but the law hasn't changed with regard to proxy selling.

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