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Thread: BSA Welcomes Girls

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    Senior Member oneiros's Avatar
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    BSA Welcomes Girls

    On International Girls Day, the BSA welcomes girls...

    ...and the response on Twitter is predictably awful.

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    big chris (11-10-2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneiros View Post
    On International Girls Day, the BSA welcomes girls...
    Great News indeed!

    ...and the response on Twitter is predictably awful.
    Yep, pretty toxic on BSA twitter feed.



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    big chris (11-10-2017)

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    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
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    According to the press release the dens will remain single gender..... But I don't really understand how dens fit into the bigger picture in America

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasy2k1 View Post
    According to the press release the dens will remain single gender..... But I don't really understand how dens fit into the bigger picture in America

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    Dens are like a year group in cubs. They have those rather than sixes and they tend to meet separately with the whole pack only meeting occasionally.

    A very controversial aspect to this is that in recent weeks adults across BSA have been being asked for their views on going coed and have been being assured that it's not a done deal. The timing of this indicates that actually it was a done deal regardless of their feedback and an awful lot of them are feeling pretty sore about it.

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    About time.

    I follow another forum mainly frequented by Americans and the response has been rather mixed, with quite a strong division and no-one really sitting on the fence. There also seems to be a feeling (rightly or wrongly) that it's partly due to the failure of the GSA to provide a programme as good as that of the BSA.

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    And the Girl Scouts of America will accept Boys of now ?

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    The reactions on the BSA Facebook story have been quite negative too - lots of Eagle Scouts moaning, and a few comments syaing its all about the money...
    How will they cope with female Scouts at WSJ2019?

    When I posted a comment - I got this lovely reply - "The UK (and England in particular) is totally screwed up and is turning into a laughable cesspool of PC stupidity. So saying that worked for you isn't exactly a great endorsement of it." - I assume he is a Trump supporter
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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnL View Post
    The reactions on the BSA Facebook story have been quite negative too - lots of Eagle Scouts moaning, and a few comments syaing its all about the money...
    How will they cope with female Scouts at WSJ2019?

    When I posted a comment - I got this lovely reply - "The UK (and England in particular) is totally screwed up and is turning into a laughable cesspool of PC stupidity. So saying that worked for you isn't exactly a great endorsement of it." - I assume he is a Trump supporter
    I had a brief look on twitter, and I had a look on scouter.com, and I wonder if, especially in twitter, if it's people who aren't involved anymore reading the headline "girls in scouting" and jumping off the deep end. Not realising that BSA are saying it's going to be an option not mandatory, that their idea is to have separate dens of boys and girls (though leaders on the ground say it'll probably be co-ed in actuality). Then again, more and more I see it's a different country. And actually, there's all the opinions, from "awesome, where does my daughter sign?" to, and I quote "we are about helping boys grow into Godly manhood." so I think even in the same country, there's the liberal edges, and a deeply conservative middle, simplistically.

    There were a few disturbing reports of some boys giving some girls a hard time at the national jamboree they had as a practice for WSJ. I would hope that with USA having no more than 10% of the people there, and only 5% by some reports I've heard, that sort of basic misogyny would be even less prevalent.

    Who's been kicking around internet forums and usenet since before uk scouting went co-ed? The arguments are unsurprisingly familiar.
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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    I've been watching the thread on scouter.com. I nearly commented then held back, let them get on with it for now.

    It is quite interesting to watch as I think it is a microcosm of USA as a whole. It really is two separate countries. Trying to achieve change with two such opposing outlooks in life must be a nightmare and it shows why the USA often seems to be so far behind on social issues.

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    This 'scandal' needs a pithy name along the lines of brexit, watergate etc.

    My suggestion is gentry, Girls entering BSA... #gentry

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    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnL View Post
    When I posted a comment - I got this lovely reply - "The UK (and England in particular) is totally screwed up and is turning into a laughable cesspool of PC stupidity. So saying that worked for you isn't exactly a great endorsement of it." - I assume he is a Trump supporter
    He sounds like a shining beacon for Scouting values. Not.
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

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    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    With the greatest of respect to our colleagues and friends in the BSA, having read quickly through the thread on scouter.com, it does appear that many people are looking for problems where none (or few) need exist.
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnL View Post
    The reactions on the BSA Facebook story have been quite negative too - lots of Eagle Scouts moaning, and a few comments syaing its all about the money...
    How will they cope with female Scouts at WSJ2019?

    When I posted a comment - I got this lovely reply - "The UK (and England in particular) is totally screwed up and is turning into a laughable cesspool of PC stupidity. So saying that worked for you isn't exactly a great endorsement of it." - I assume he is a Trump supporter
    For what it's worth, my apologies for immature behavior. The really sad thing is I heard something similar from someone I went to high school with in Belgium. I just wanted to remind him of how we used to laugh at American tourists that would be totally clueless to other cultures.

    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    I've been watching the thread on scouter.com. I nearly commented then held back, let them get on with it for now.

    It is quite interesting to watch as I think it is a microcosm of USA as a whole. It really is two separate countries. Trying to achieve change with two such opposing outlooks in life must be a nightmare and it shows why the USA often seems to be so far behind on social issues.
    This post hurts the most. Not that I disagree. Rather, it's a bit too accurate. The thing is it's not just one side acting like asses. The level of discourse in this country is about an inch above a pig sty.

    lakes_stu, I think the underlying issue is change. Some people don't like it.

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    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattR View Post
    lakes_stu, I think the underlying issue is change. Some people don't like it.
    Very true Matt.

    I have to admit that I have only been involved with Scouting as an adult for 4 years, so I joined long after girls were admitted to all sections. However, when I look back to my time as a Cub and Scout in the mid 1980's, the ethos has remained the same even if the programme has been kept (more or less) up to date. As an example, somebody was bemoaning that some merit badges would have to be dropped. I don't know which ones, but I don't see why this would need to be the case.

    I can see that providing separate dens, packs, troops etc for girls would put a big strain on volunteers. So, why not let girls join a den with other boys? Also, I think we found that concerns about providing a mixed leadership team were unfounded (although it is good practice if possible). In my personal experience as a Leader, we don't have boys and girls, we have Beavers. Rightly or wrongly. Now, I admit that Beavers are our equivalent of your Tiger Cubs (I think), and I know things change somewhat as young people get older, but I suspect many Cub, Scout and Explorer Leaders and members would agree that any adaptations are more than achievable.

    Please don't take my comments personally, as I really do mean no offence to anyone.
    Last edited by lakes_stu; 12-10-2017 at 01:49 PM.
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    The move by Boy Scouts of America (BSA) is a big step. But, it is a long way from co-educational Scouting. They're planning to let girls join BSA but in girls-only units. Not what most of us would consider was mixed Scouting. Hopefully BSA's girls-only option will be the start of co-educational Scouting in the USA. But, they have a long way to go at the moment.

    The WAGGGS organisation in USA is the Girl Scouts of the United States of America (GSA). Their blog post from yesterday is worth a read: http://blog.girlscouts.org/2017/10/g...p-experts.html No doubt some leaders will move from GSA to BSA, but we'll all have to wait to see if this is a significant number.



    Paul

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