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Thread: Penny Walk

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    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    Penny Walk

    We are thinking about taking our Beavers out on a penny walk. The sort where you flip a coin at each junction to decide which way to go. The emphasis will be on road safety and the green cross code. All the roads in our area are very well lit with wide pavements.

    Has anyone done anything like this, and how well did it work? Did the fact that you did not know the exact route beforehand impact on risk assessments etc?

    Did you stick together as one group or split into smaller groups? If the latter, how was the 'leader in charge' maintained?

    I realise that common sense should and will prevail, but would like to learn from others experience!
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    I think the key considerations are how many Beavers you will be taking and how well you know the area and relevant safety precautions that are necessary. IMHO not knowing the precise route shouldn't matter so long as you can risk assess on a general basis with your local knowledge.

    One question I would have about splitting up though - how will you stay on the same route if each group flips a coin to decide where to go?
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    AESL & AGSL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I have never done a penny walk so not sure how that would work, I would not bother instead I would plan a short walk near your hall which involves as many different types of road crossing as possible such as pedestiran crossing, crossing to a traffic island, crossing with no proper crossing point, zebra crossing if you happen to have one near enough etc.

    How we did ths in the past when I helped with Beavers was to do indoor road safety activities with most of the Beavers (learning green cross code, learning about different crossing types, practising crossing on a pretend indoor road, we also have a load of road safety card and board games to play with them). Then take one group of Beavers out at a time with two adults to supervise them who know the planned route and what road safety aspects to emphasise when etc. Obviously this would reduce the length of the walk considerably as would would need enough time to do it 3 or 4 times. At this time of year I would actually consider having them hi vis clothing on the walk as well.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    Thanks gents. Splitting up probably isnt an option, while the penny concept would probably not work well with the full Colony. So, we may go along with Petes suggestion.

    If anyone has done a penny walk though, I would still be interested in hearing about it.
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    We did with scouts with each Patrol going separately. Bit different to beavers I know. In terms of a risk assessment we did put a ban on a couple of specific streets which have a certain reputation after dark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    One question I would have about splitting up though - how will you stay on the same route if each group flips a coin to decide where to go?
    Would you need to stick to the same route?

    If you have a couple of adults who know the area, with mobile devices, with each group it would seem that any "getting lost" or "emergency" situations would be covered....

    We often do a thing with the pack where one group goes out and leaves tracking signs for the next group to follow. If one of the groups doesn't do the job quite well enough then the two groups will take different routes. The leaders know roughly where the first group are going but can always divert back to the hut if necessary.... Works well for us.

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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    Would you need to stick to the same route?

    If you have a couple of adults who know the area, with mobile devices, with each group it would seem that any "getting lost" or "emergency" situations would be covered....

    We often do a thing with the pack where one group goes out and leaves tracking signs for the next group to follow. If one of the groups doesn't do the job quite well enough then the two groups will take different routes. The leaders know roughly where the first group are going but can always divert back to the hut if necessary.... Works well for us.
    Is that really possible with Beavers and Cubs, considering the Leader-in-Charge requirement (alongside the 1:6 and 1:8 ratios), which was the question the OP asked? Unless you have plenty of adults, of course.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    We did one like this with Beavers a few years ago although it was on a network of footpaths that skirt through local farms and a nature reserve. It was small enough that no matter which way you branch at each junction you'll get back to the entrance within an hour, so we fudged the last three or four choices to ensure we got there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Is that really possible with Beavers and Cubs, considering the Leader-in-Charge requirement (alongside the 1:6 and 1:8 ratios), which was the question the OP asked? Unless you have plenty of adults, of course.
    Depends mostly if your beavers are a handful in groups of six?

    Iíve always taken the leader in charge to be overall for the activity, so number of leaders required doesnít change if itís one group or say 4... (letís assume 4 groups of 6 beavers for a colony of 24).

    I know some people would say itís minimum 3 leaders per group of 6, but Iím not sure thatís an accurate reading.

    All that said, Iím not sure my risk assessment would split them up like that in the dark!


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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    Depends mostly if your beavers are a handful in groups of six?

    I’ve always taken the leader in charge to be overall for the activity, so number of leaders required doesn’t change if it’s one group or say 4... (let’s assume 4 groups of 6 beavers for a colony of 24).

    I know some people would say it’s minimum 3 leaders per group of 6, but I’m not sure that’s an accurate reading.

    All that said, I’m not sure my risk assessment would split them up like that in the dark!


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    If the groups are not close enough for the leader in charge to have supervision over all of them (which is the purpose of having an LiC), they cannot act as LiC for all the groups.

    Therefore 2 leaders for a group of 6 Beavers is the recommended minimum (1:6 + LiC), and a minimum of 8 leaders required for a colony of 24 in groups of 6 or 5 leaders in a single group - note POR 3.7h, too, in relation to this.

    POR 3.7h. For all Scouting activities a risk assessment should be carried out as stated in Rule 9.4. This risk assessment cannot override the minimum requirements stated in 3.7d and 3.7g or those required by the activity rules in chapter 9.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    If the groups are not close enough for the leader in charge to have supervision over all of them (which is the purpose of having an LiC), they cannot act as LiC for all the groups.

    Therefore 2 leaders for a group of 6 Beavers is the recommended minimum (1:6 + LiC), and a minimum of 8 leaders required for a colony of 24 in groups of 6 or 5 leaders in a single group - note POR 3.7h, too, in relation to this.

    POR 3.7h. For all Scouting activities a risk assessment should be carried out as stated in Rule 9.4. This risk assessment cannot override the minimum requirements stated in 3.7d and 3.7g or those required by the activity rules in chapter 9.
    Yes but..............you have highlighted one of the ambiguities that is found throughout POR - the ratios are a recommended minimum, not an absolute minimum.
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    Senior Member BalooNav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    If the groups are not close enough for the leader in charge to have supervision over all of them (which is the purpose of having an LiC), they cannot act as LiC for all the groups.

    Therefore 2 leaders for a group of 6 Beavers is the recommended minimum (1:6 + LiC), and a minimum of 8 leaders required for a colony of 24 in groups of 6 or 5 leaders in a single group - note POR 3.7h, too, in relation to this.

    snip
    that's not how I would define a LiC. I'd take it as more overall responsible and coordinating which seems to be corroborated at https://members.scouts.org.uk/newsan...ader-in-charge

    John


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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    If the groups are not close enough for the leader in charge to have supervision over all of them (which is the purpose of having an LiC), they cannot act as LiC for all the groups.
    Iíd argue that LiC being in mobile communication across the area beavers will cover doing this is just as capable as LiC being on the same 50 acre camp site


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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    If the groups are not close enough for the leader in charge to have supervision over all of them (which is the purpose of having an LiC), they cannot act as LiC for all the groups.

    Therefore 2 leaders for a group of 6 Beavers is the recommended minimum (1:6 + LiC), and a minimum of 8 leaders required for a colony of 24 in groups of 6 or 5 leaders in a single group - note POR 3.7h, too, in relation to this.

    POR 3.7h. For all Scouting activities a risk assessment should be carried out as stated in Rule 9.4. This risk assessment cannot override the minimum requirements stated in 3.7d and 3.7g or those required by the activity rules in chapter 9.
    As the leader in charge of a camp, i cannot see each activity group the whole time. I am still in charge of the camp/event. I may be communicating with my leaders by radio, my mobile phone, or by runner whilst myself sitting in an ivory tower.

    If the groups are out and about around the village, and, as leader in charge, I can easily get to each of the groups if necessary, i would be happy with that.
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  21. #15
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Yes but..............you have highlighted one of the ambiguities that is found throughout POR - the ratios are a recommended minimum, not an absolute minimum.
    Try justifying that if there are any issues...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    Iíd argue that LiC being in mobile communication across the area beavers will cover doing this is just as capable as LiC being on the same 50 acre camp site


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    There's a big difference between a public area and a private campsite.
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