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Thread: Census 2018 - how can I get compass to give me a list of member vs associate member?

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    Census 2018 - how can I get compass to give me a list of member vs associate member?

    Hi

    I know this is not a Compass support forum, but you folks are the fountain of all knowledge ...

    There is a question on the Census 2018 that is new since last year:

    "All other members or associate members ..."

    image.png

    Is there a way that I can get Compass to report who is a member vs an associate member?

    We do not have any other records that I can use to answer this one.

    R.

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    I am not sure how much help this reply is going to be as I am no longer a member of TSA and thus not completely familiar with the workings of Compass . But my understanding from posts I have seen elsewhere is that Compass does not distinguish between full and associate members and I think therefore that you will be out of luck!
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    Hi

    I know this is not a Compass support forum, but you folks are the fountain of all knowledge ...

    There is a question on the Census 2018 that is new since last year:

    "All other members or associate members ..."

    image.png

    Is there a way that I can get Compass to report who is a member vs an associate member?

    We do not have any other records that I can use to answer this one.

    R.
    Given that we don't pay for adults at all now... and that realistically there is no administrative difference between the two.... is it worth worrying about?

    As an aside - i'm not sure what it means when it refers to members benig "registered directly with the group secretary". Either adult members are recorded on Compass, or they are not adult members.
    Dan Spencer

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    I have a sectional assistant that I havenít seen since July. She has been volunteering abroad since September so that is not surprising. But she seemed to edging away in the summer term.

    I was worrying whetherI should be making an effort to secure her return or write her off due to the census. Plus worried that this approach may be the nail in the coffin! Then I remembered that we are not paying for adults. Happy days! I can go softly.

    But I am wondering how many other groups and networks have similar situations. We are going to have an inflated adult number.


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    nele
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    Quote Originally Posted by claire.shadbolt View Post
    I have a sectional assistant that I haven’t seen since July. She has been volunteering abroad since September so that is not surprising. But she seemed to edging away in the summer term.

    I was worrying whetherI should be making an effort to secure her return or write her off due to the census. Plus worried that this approach may be the nail in the coffin! Then I remembered that we are not paying for adults. Happy days! I can go softly.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    As you aren't paying for adults, there isn't a big problem if you wish to keep her on the books for now...

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    So, you expected our very expensive membership administration system to actually be able to tell you who is a Member? No, information not avaiable from Compass.

    Remember, adults only become a Member (see POR 3.1 p) when they make their promise - this date is not recorded in Compass anywhere.

    There are thousands of adults (including Occassional Helpers) that have Membership Numbers but a not a Member. When we could view youth data on Compass the parents were automatically allocated a Membership Number.

    The fact that we're not paying for adults is no real excuse for not keeping accurate Membership data.

    But, if Compass is the accurate record of which adults currently involved in Scouting, why are adults even still on the census return?


    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    Hi

    I know this is not a Compass support forum, but you folks are the fountain of all knowledge ...

    There is a question on the Census 2018 that is new since last year:

    "All other members or associate members ..."

    image.png

    Is there a way that I can get Compass to report who is a member vs an associate member?

    We do not have any other records that I can use to answer this one.

    R.
    I received a response from HQ. Compass does not hold this data.

    We, as a group, do not hold any adult membership information outside of Compass. So I have not recorded any Associate Members on the census.

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    All your Group Exec members not recorded elsewhere should be associate members

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    All your Group Exec members not recorded elsewhere should be associate members
    But are they not recorded in the 'Other' box for: "GROUP EXEC MEMBERS"?

    R.

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    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    Hi

    Is there a way that I can get Compass to report who is a member vs an associate member?

    We do not have any other records that I can use to answer this one.

    R.
    Compass does not hold data regarding the membership status, either member or associate member, of people in scouting.

    An adult (full) member is someone who has completed an adult declaration (on the adult information form; what we used to call the AA form) and affirmed The Promise.

    An adult associate member is someone who has only completed the adult declaration. An associate member is not required to affirm The Promise.

    All members of GECs are required to be at least associate members. Generally, GECs will comprise two classes of members: full members, typically section leaders and the GSL and AGSL; and, associate members, typically officers (chair, secretary, treasurer) and ‘ordinary members’, i.e. all other GEC members who do not hold a leader appointment or full membership. These associate members can also be full members if they wish, provided they affirm The Promise. There are no extra benefits in doing this other than the entitlement to wear uniform with the membership badge.

    Yes it probably would be simpler just to have member and non-member and do away with the associate member class, but the use of the associate member class is to preserve the traditional importance of The Promise in gaining membership while at the same time recognising (and counting and recording!) those people who play a significant ‘member’ role but without the obligations conferred in affirming The Promise.

    Similarly, section assistants are required to be at least associate members but they can choose to become full members if they affirm The Promise. Again, the only thing ‘gained’ is the entitlement to wear the membership badge on uniform.

    Occasional Helpers (OH) are not members or associate members.

    I suspect most people in a group would know, certainly the GSL should know, who is a member and who is an associate member. There are very few appointments which are classed as associate member where the holder takes up the option to become a full member; if they do, one would likely know. (My current group secretary, a parent of a young member, is an associate member, however, my next group secretary will be a full member as they will be‘transferring’ from being a current ACSL to the GS appointment but will not be‘downgrading’ their membership status when they swap appointments.)

    The other thing to be aware of in taking the census is to avoid ‘double-counting’. You only record people in the place where they undertake their primary role. A CSL’s primary role is as a leader not as a GEC member. A DC who is also your ACSL is not recorded on your census return at all but on the district’s return. &c.

    TM
    Last edited by merryweather; 11-01-2018 at 10:29 AM.
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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    But are they not recorded in the 'Other' box for: "GROUP EXEC MEMBERS"
    Ahh yes so they are, in that case Group Section Assistants and Skills Instructors would be examples of people who would be recorded in this other members section of the Group return.
    Last edited by shiftypete; 11-01-2018 at 09:16 PM.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    I suspect most people in a group would know, certainly the GSL should know, who is a member and who is an associate member.
    TM
    I shall have to admit to not being a perfect GSL. I took over less than a year ago. I have over 50 leaders/assistant leaders/sectional assistants/sas/skills leads etc. etc. in my group.

    The only system of record that I have for adults is Compass. We keep no other formal records about leaders.

    I have no idea which of the adults, that hold roles that could be either associate or full-member, are actually associate members rather than full-members.

    Personally I think that it does matter whether someone has made the promise or not - but I am not about to instigate a separate internal system to record the information. If there was a box on Compass to tick, I would spend a bit of time collating the data to ensure that it was accurate - but if they do not care enough to add the box, then I am not going to spend the time collecting the data - I can not see that it will every reach the top of list of "things to do".

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    I received a response from HQ. Compass does not hold this data.

    We, as a group, do not hold any adult membership information outside of Compass. So I have not recorded any Associate Members on the census.
    Odd thought as Compass is supposed top reflect the Adult form https://members.scouts.org.uk/factsh...ion%20Form.pdf which does record it :-)

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