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Thread: Type 1 diabetes

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    Question Type 1 diabetes

    Good Morning,

    Where do we stand as Leader giving a Scout an injection of insulin? Prior eating, as Scout unable to injected himself as newly diagnosed.

    As the scout Mum I know I can do it, but I expect whilst in uniform we have to follow POR and not be in a room on own out of site of others.

    But I am thinking if scout was at District event and I was not available, but Leader in Charge was OK to do injection.
    Karen Gaskell
    ASL - 3rd/9th Welwyn Garden City

    WE NEED MORE ADULT VOLUNTEERS!

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    Have you asked the Info centre at Gilwell if any there definitive guidelines ?

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    The Leader can, if he has been trained, and is willing, deal with the insulin.

    I'd be uneasy as I baulk at the idea of giving myself insulin, never mind anyone else. (Type 2 but have been offered insulin, but I have alternatives)

    Not sure why but this reminds me of the leaders who didn't read the health forms. Kids delivered to camp, one with his medication - yup, no problem, we can deal with that. Fails to ask about it... Kid arrives for medication... Leader discovers that it is applied rectally...
    Ewan Scott

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    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Good Morning,
    hiya

    Where do we stand as Leader giving a Scout an injection of insulin? Prior eating, as Scout unable to inject himself as newly diagnosed.


    Generally as leaders we will ‘assist’ in the taking of medication – a check on the correct medication; checking the dose; assisting with hygiene; &c – but we encourage self-administration. The only time we would physically administer medication, such as an injection, would be if the recipient was physically incapable of doing so or in an emergency.


    My GSL is a type 1 diabetic (IDDM) and has been for many years.

    A newly diagnosed diabetic who is on insulin will be given a lot of support, especially in the first few months, from their diabetes specialist nurse (DSN). This will include training in how to use an injection pen, among others. They will do this at any age/maturity where they feel a child can cope. It is not unknown for 8 year olds to be capable of self-administering insulin. Many of the pen manufacturers these days produce very child-friendly insulin pens which are simple to use. A child of scout age (10>) will generally be encouraged to learn how to self-administer as soon as possible, though maybe with some parental assistance at first. It’s not going to go away so the sooner they learn to do it themselves the better for all…..

    A lot will depend on the particular insulin regime they will follow. My GSL is on what he calls a basal-bolus regime where he injects up to 5 or 6 times a day. Some people I know are on just two injections a day but have to follow a defined meal time pattern.

    I would not be happy to administer an insulin injection to a scout (unless it was say glucagon in an emergency).

    As the scout Mum I know I can do it, but I expect whilst in uniform we have to follow POR and not be in a room on own out of sight of others.


    I would not let an OTT view of child protection/’young people first’ get in the way of you and doing what is best for your child in this instance. There is no issue with a parent taking their child into a private area to administer medication.

    If the medication was to be administered by a leader other than their parent then this would likely be done in a first aid room/tent and all arrangements would be supervised.

    (whether you’re wearing uniform or not is irrelevant! Also I would not want to be administering an insulin in full sight of others if the recipient was to have this in their buttocks!)

    Most diabetics can quite happily get on with the job of testing and injecting themselves with the minimum of fuss and should have a quiet/private area available if needed. My GSL is quite happy to test and inject in public but does this quietly to one side with no fuss. They choose to inject into their upper arms on these occasions and not the thighs, stomach or buttocks, so no removal of clothes required.

    But I am thinking if scout was at District event and I was notavailable, but Leader in Charge was OK to do injection.


    I would suggest you talk to your child’s DSN who will provide you with assistance and professional advice.

    If yourchild requires an insulin injection before each and every meal, can I ask what happens when they’re at school?

    Childhood diabetes (type 1) at such a young age is a challenging and life-changing disease. I would say to any parent and child, be positive, get as much support as possible, but quickly take up the challenge of living well with diabetes, get into a routine and learn how to manage it well. The sooner you get started the better and easier it becomes.

    what is probably more important is for other scouts and leaders to be able to recognise warning signs, especially of the onset of a hypo and to know what to do.
    my GSL always carries some dextrosol on him.

    Like isay it doesn’t seem to have affected my GSL’s participation in scouting or that of many other young people with diabetes that I know.

    TM
    Last edited by merryweather; 11-01-2018 at 12:28 PM.
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    [QUOTE

    I would not let an OTT view of child protection/’young people first’ get in the way of you and doing what is best for your child in this instance. There is no issue with a parent taking their child into a private area to administer medication.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it would be a bizzare situation if a parent could not be alone with their own child in order to give them some sort of treatment.

    Having said that I have heard it suggested!

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    AESL & AGSL shiftypete's Avatar
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    The issue is that to an outside observer they have no way of knowing that the Leader is dealing with their own child and not just any Scout and it gives the impression that we think 1 adult alone with one child is ok.

    Simple solution is to either have a friend of your child accompany them whilst injections are administered or have another adult accompany you. How we would probably handle this on camp is for the parent or other Leader who is doing the administering to bring the child into our marquee and for another Leader to be in there but busy with some other task in the background so as to not seem too overwhelming for the child having the injection administered. In fact thinking about it that is pretty much how we handle all minor first aid treatment

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    The issue is that to an outside observer they have no way of knowing that the Leader is dealing with their own child and not just any Scout and it gives the impression that we think 1 adult alone with one child is ok.
    I have heard this trotted out before. It puts the welfare of the association above the welfare of the child. It is wrong. No parent should be afraid of dealing with their own child. It is absolutely outrageous that anyone should suggest that a father or mother cannot have solo "contact" with their own child.

    No child needing medication such as insulin injections, should be subjected to the indignity of having to have witnesses unless they ask for them. Insulin treatment is not First Aid. It should not be treated as First Aid.

    It is one thing to have people wash down a wound or have a cut or minor burn attended to accompanied by a friend or two adults, it is quite another to have your regular private and personal treatment publicised.

    There was a time when I was a Leader where I might be walking around the campsite and my daughter would come up and give me a hug. Anyone who has a problem with that is someone who has a problem themselves.

    If the Scout is so newly diagnosed that they cannot deal with their insulin themselves, then perhaps them coming on camp is best postponed till they can deal with it themselves and at that time the Leader involvement if not the parent, is limited to "Jimmy, its time...you okay with this? ( the answer should be yes)"

    As I said previously though, if needs be, and if trained to do so, then I would be prepared to assist but I recognise there is a conflict between dignity of the "patient" and the adult protection policy.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    I can understand that it might have looked a bit odd if I had been alone with one of my two sons when we were involved in Scouting.

    If anyone had raised a concern however I would have been able to explain why it was OK.

    I remember a case years ago when two Venture Scouts - one of each sex - shared a small tent. When the "complainant" had become a bit less irate the VSL was able to point out that they were brother and sister.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    I can understand that it might have looked a bit odd if I had been alone with one of my two sons when we were involved in Scouting.
    My daughter went through a phase of wanting to hold my hand all the time. This included one time when we walked past a minibus full of Explorers with me in leader uniform and her in scout uniform. I felt very awkward (they had clearly noticed).

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    Last year, we were down the beach with Scouts. On the way back up, crossing a busy road, I'd put my hands out to slow Scouts down who were walking behind me, a couple of younger ones thought I was holding my hands out for them to hold, and hold them they did.

    #TotesAwkward

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    If anyone had raised a concern however I would have been able to explain why it was OK.
    The trouble is that most people don't raise a concern or find out the reasonable explantion so they get the wrong idea and some of them they go off and mutter to other people about how they had seen a "dodgy Scout Leader" doing x.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    I can understand that it might have looked a bit odd if I had been alone with one of my two sons when we were involved in Scouting.

    If anyone had raised a concern however I would have been able to explain why it was OK.
    It's fairly easy to explain if anyone questions it that the leader and scout are mother and child.

    Our leaders are generally pretty good at, once at camp, treating their own offspring no differently to the others... particularly in front of the others. This is more to avoid the others feeling homesick than anything else (e.g. if little johnny gets tucked in and a goodnight kiss because mum is the BSL, the others start to miss their mums)

    However, in the OP's case here, its a no brainer.

    When it comes to other leaders, there becomes a clear issue of safeguarding vs dignity. I dont see it being a huge issue if it is a pair of leaders who the kid feels comfortable with. A pair of strangers, though, and that might be quite disconcerting for the YP involved. The key is whether a) the leaders know what their doing and are comfortable doing it, and b) whether the child and their parents are happy with the arrangement.



    I remember a case years ago when two Venture Scouts - one of each sex - shared a small tent. When the "complainant" had become a bit less irate the VSL was able to point out that they were brother and sister.
    Some people do seem to get very irate about stuff that really is none of their business. If the Ventures were over 18 then, frankly, it is entirely their own decision who their share a tent with. (Years ago, as an ASL, I was told by the SL at camp that it was his policy that male and females couldn't share tents. I explained quite politely that either he could forget that policy, or myself and my girlfriend would not be attending that camp).

    Even with our YLs... we have had camps where we've had one female and one male YL. They've been best friends for years, have had years worth of sleepovers at each others houses. Who am I to say "you need to put up two separate tents"? Again - if the YP are comfortable, if the parents are comfortable, and if it doesnt break POR or the Law...
    Dan Spencer

    Group Scout Leader 66th Bath
    Deputy District Commissioner (Programme) - City of Bath District
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    Member of Avon County Appointments Advisory Committee
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    I would agree with Dan's points but I have found over the years that some people do get very upset about sleeping arrangements.

    When my wife was a Scout Leader her GSL became very concerned when her ASL shared a tent with his girl friend - who was also a Leader. He announced that this must never happen again.

    What rather complicated the situation was that we were having another camp at a water activities centre where the Leader team was the ASL, his girl friend and me. I was under orders to make sure that they did not share a tent again!

    I did not consider it any of my business but thankfully he asked what I thought and I suggested that whilst I did not care who slept where, perhaps that if we took three tents it would save us all at lot of grief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    The trouble is that most people don't raise a concern or find out the reasonable explantion so they get the wrong idea and some of them they go off and mutter to other people about how they had seen a "dodgy Scout Leader" doing x.
    Sorry, but that is not the problem of the parent and child - that is a problem of scouting ( deliberate lower case).

    We are about promoting a decent and proper society. If we then say to people - you cannot touch each other, you cannot hug your child, then we are instilling fear and doing exactly the opposite. Heck, I know that I am out of kilter with current political correctness, but if my daugter or son want a 1:1 with me however momentary, than they will have that time.

    If a child wants to hold my hand whilst crossing the road, then that is fine too, if it makes them feel safer.

    If I need to make contact with a kid doing an activity to support them, to help them find the correct position, then so be it.

    I guess part of my problem with Scouts was that I put the kids first and TSA somewhere way down the line.
    Ewan Scott

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Ewan, whilst i totally agree with you - i am pretty confident that you would be sensible enough to avoid acting with your own children in a way that would cause others to feel left out, homesick, etc. I've never been in that position myself (my own daughter has a few years to go before she reaches Beavers) but I have watched a number of parent helpers in my group struggle with that conflict.

    Unfortunately there is a culture that any contact between an adult and a YP who is not a member of that adult's family is for some nefarious reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    I would agree with Dan's points but I have found over the years that some people do get very upset about sleeping arrangements.

    When my wife was a Scout Leader her GSL became very concerned when her ASL shared a tent with his girl friend - who was also a Leader. He announced that this must never happen again.

    What rather complicated the situation was that we were having another camp at a water activities centre where the Leader team was the ASL, his girl friend and me. I was under orders to make sure that they did not share a tent again!

    I did not consider it any of my business but thankfully he asked what I thought and I suggested that whilst I did not care who slept where, perhaps that if we took three tents it would save us all at lot of grief.
    As a GSL myself - my opinion is that it is absolutely nothing to do with me which leaders share tents.

    If people bring their own tents to camp, then it is entirely up to them who they share them with
    If people borrow group tents, then, depending on availability of tents, they may have to share, but we leave it up to the leaders to make those sharing arrangements.

    In insisting that a couple don't share a tent, what is your GSL attempting to achieve? Is he somehow protecting people from harm? Or is he just creating bitterness among his volunteers.
    Dan Spencer

    Group Scout Leader 66th Bath
    Deputy District Commissioner (Programme) - City of Bath District
    Nights Away Adviser and member of District Executive Committee - City of Bath District
    Member of Avon County Appointments Advisory Committee
    Event organiser "Be Prepared" Resilience Events
    Formerly CSL, SL, ASL and Jamboree Communications Lead

    Web designer


    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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