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Thread: Scout brand review

  1. #1
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    Scout brand review

    Scout brand review: improving the perception of Scouting.

    A review of the Scout brand is now well underway. Proposals for a new brand position, logo and visual identity are currently being tested and will go to our Board for approval in March 2018.

    The aim is to develop a brand that makes the benefits of Scouting clearer, is flexible enough to be used across the Movement, makes recruitment easier and will lead to better tools and resources. If approved, the updated brand will launch in May 2018.
    Source: https://scouts-news.org.uk/31ME-MQ8E-A23FDCA0B5/cr.aspx

    I wonder if TSA will be offering grants to everyone to cover the costs of making any changes?

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    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Scouting becomes more and more like work every year.

    The advantage of work though is they pay me to put up with the rubbish.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Every large organisation updates its brand fairly regularly. The cynic in me would suggest that the culture of constantly updating brands has largely been created by the branding agencies to generate a constant flow of work.

    The key difference though is that other organisations have paid staff dealing with it, and generally the rebrand only affects that orgnaisation. When TSA rebrands, it affects thousands of smaller charities (ie groups) up and down the country as each district, each county, and each group will no doubt have to bear the costs of the rebrand. Thats before we think about churches, community halls, etc who may have incorporated our branding into signs (quite a few community halls have big signs listing, with logos, the various groups that meet there).

    There's not just the cost, there's the physical work. As a group, we are very much "on brand". Lets assume that we need to replace every item with the logo on it:

    - Minibus rebrand 300
    - New Hall signage 200 (plus 2 volunteers half a day to take down the old signs and put the new ones up)
    - Reprint and relaminate all internal posters, signs, etc within the hall - probably another 50 in paper, ink and laminating pouches, plus a days work
    - New badge posters (going to need these anyway but no point buying unti the rebrand happens) - 20
    - Website redesign (no cost for us, but significant amount of work)
    - Banners - i think we've got 3 banners with the logo on. Another 20 each to replace.

    It's easily getting up to 600 for the group, plus a few days work.

    Then there's the fact that we've been encouraging group members to get group clothing which has the scout logo on it. People aren't going to want to replace that, so we'll have a mixed brand for years.
    Dan Spencer

    Group Scout Leader 66th Bath
    Deputy District Commissioner (Programme) - City of Bath District
    Nights Away Adviser and member of District Executive Committee - City of Bath District
    Member of Avon County Appointments Advisory Committee
    Event organiser "Be Prepared" Resilience Events
    Formerly CSL, SL, ASL and Jamboree Communications Lead

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    ............. When TSA rebrands, it affects thousands of smaller charities (ie groups) up and down the country as each district, each county, and each group will no doubt have to bear the costs of the rebrand..............
    That of course assumes that the smaller charities decide to play ball.

    A quick Google images search shows that quite a few groups and districts are still using branding that is way off message. I think TSA will have quite a challenge on its hands to get everyone on message if/when this goes ahead. It will be interesting to see if this goes out for "consultation" - I suspect not given the time scale quoted.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    When will they stop tinkering with something that isn't broke - So glad I'm out of Scouting now and in an independent group - I never thought how free i'd feel being away from the TSA.

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    Continuously pratting with branding is a UK thing - the Swiss and Germans very rarely bother, for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    Every large organisation updates its brand fairly regularly. The cynic in me would suggest that the culture of constantly updating brands has largely been created by the branding agencies to generate a constant flow of work.

    The key difference though is that other organisations have paid staff dealing with it, and generally the rebrand only affects that orgnaisation. When TSA rebrands, it affects thousands of smaller charities (ie groups) up and down the country as each district, each county, and each group will no doubt have to bear the costs of the rebrand. Thats before we think about churches, community halls, etc who may have incorporated our branding into signs (quite a few community halls have big signs listing, with logos, the various groups that meet there).

    There's not just the cost, there's the physical work. As a group, we are very much "on brand". Lets assume that we need to replace every item with the logo on it:

    - Minibus rebrand 300
    - New Hall signage 200 (plus 2 volunteers half a day to take down the old signs and put the new ones up)
    - Reprint and relaminate all internal posters, signs, etc within the hall - probably another 50 in paper, ink and laminating pouches, plus a days work
    - New badge posters (going to need these anyway but no point buying unti the rebrand happens) - 20
    - Website redesign (no cost for us, but significant amount of work)
    - Banners - i think we've got 3 banners with the logo on. Another 20 each to replace.

    It's easily getting up to 600 for the group, plus a few days work.

    Then there's the fact that we've been encouraging group members to get group clothing which has the scout logo on it. People aren't going to want to replace that, so we'll have a mixed brand for years.
    We did a brand review at work a few years ago. Our marketing director spent some time looking at how other brands evolve over time and showed that good brands change very little over time, such as BBC (which has gone back to a previous look), Shell. In our "sector" DofE has made virtually no changes to its logos in 50 years.

    The visual part of a brand builds up in the memories of those who see it over time. To simply change it to "modernise" it, means that the existing "value" is immediately reduced, requiring additional spend to re-build the brand awareness. Things that are held out to be "modern" tend to become out of date more quickly.

    bbc - http://625.uk.com/tv_logos/bbc.htm

    http://blog.logomyway.com/history-famous-logos-1-shell/

    https://www.coca-colajourney.com.au/...coca-cola-logo



    Better to carefully maintain timeless key logos.

    Graham
    Last edited by GScrimgeour; 27-01-2018 at 01:14 PM.

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GScrimgeour View Post
    We did a brand review at work a few years ago. Our marketing director spent some time looking at how other brands evolve over time and showed that good brands change very little over time, such as BBC (which has gone back to a previous look), Shell. In our "sector" DofE has made virtually no changes to its logos in 50 years.

    The visual part of a brand builds up in the memories of those who see it over time. To simply change it to "modernise" it, means that the existing "value" is immediately reduced, requiring additional spend to re-build the brand awareness. Things that are held out to be "modern" tend to become out of date more quickly.

    bbc - http://625.uk.com/tv_logos/bbc.htm

    http://blog.logomyway.com/history-famous-logos-1-shell/

    https://www.coca-colajourney.com.au/...coca-cola-logo



    Better to carefully maintain timeless key logos.

    Graham
    I agree with you Graham.

    I'm not against a bit of a refresh from time to time, but as you say, core logos shouldnt be messed around with more than necessary.
    Dan Spencer

    Group Scout Leader 66th Bath
    Deputy District Commissioner (Programme) - City of Bath District
    Nights Away Adviser and member of District Executive Committee - City of Bath District
    Member of Avon County Appointments Advisory Committee
    Event organiser "Be Prepared" Resilience Events
    Formerly CSL, SL, ASL and Jamboree Communications Lead

    Web designer


    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

  10. #9
    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    I agree with you Graham.

    I'm not against a bit of a refresh from time to time, but as you say, core logos shouldnt be messed around with more than necessary.
    Yep - agree with you.

    Strange thing is, most brand consultants will argue for an update.....

  11. #10
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    A review of the Scout brand is now well underway. Proposals for a new brand position, logo and visual identity are currently being tested and will go to our Board for approval in March 2018.
    Wouldn't it be great if the Board requested an estimate of the cost of any banding changes across the whole of UK scouting. It wouldn't have to be in great detail, or necessarily particularly accurate. Just a rough estimate of the cost in both financial terms and volunteer hours. That way they can assess whether the benefits of the re-branding outweigh the costs. They can consider whether taking that much money out across the movement is really worth it.

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    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingstonCubber View Post
    Wouldn't it be great if the Board requested an estimate of the cost of any banding changes across the whole of UK scouting. It wouldn't have to be in great detail, or necessarily particularly accurate. Just a rough estimate of the cost in both financial terms and volunteer hours. That way they can assess whether the benefits of the re-branding outweigh the costs. They can consider whether taking that much money out across the movement is really worth it.
    The answer to that question can only be 'No' Scouting is a brand that will only ever appeal to niche market of the Youth out there. In fact the problem in scouting is not an absence of kids, it's a lack of adults. Always has been and will get worse in the future, as we all start to lead more busier lives, with long commutes, most of us will be so time poor that more adults will give up scouting. For the life of me I can't see what they will rebrand, the logo can't change(can it?). So I assume it will be some half baked initiative or liberal slogan they''ll impose in their own wonderful style. the last 5 years have been a disaster for tinkering, from the car crash that is Compass, to nonsensical challenge badges,to the wonderfully wooly Youth Shaped initiative there has never been a better time to leave the system alone to resettle itself. There is not much fundamentally wrong with scouting at least not at the coal face, but the powers at be seem intent on tinkering to justify there existence. If they're not careful it will be come irrelevant to the YP in the movement and non existent to the wider public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GScrimgeour View Post
    We did a brand review at work a few years ago. Our marketing director spent some time looking at how other brands evolve over time and showed that good brands change very little over time, such as BBC (which has gone back to a previous look), Shell. In our "sector" DofE has made virtually no changes to its logos in 50 years.

    The visual part of a brand builds up in the memories of those who see it over time. To simply change it to "modernise" it, means that the existing "value" is immediately reduced, requiring additional spend to re-build the brand awareness. Things that are held out to be "modern" tend to become out of date more quickly.

    bbc - http://625.uk.com/tv_logos/bbc.htm

    http://blog.logomyway.com/history-famous-logos-1-shell/

    https://www.coca-colajourney.com.au/...coca-cola-logo



    Better to carefully maintain timeless key logos.

    Graham
    Your link to the Coca-Cola logo story reminded me of conversation with a Patent and Copyright lawyer I met a few years ago who had worked on Coca-Cola's affairs in UK. Every few years the designs expire and can't be renewed in an identical form. Coca-Cola's instructions are that the designs are changed only sufficiently to be seen as new for registration purposes.

    This is usually done by subtle changes in the Pantone colour shade or a tiny variation in the swirls on the script so to anyone buying a bottle or can, it's still "red" with the familiar Coca-Cola logo. I agree with you entirely about maintaining timeless logos, and if it's protection of the logo that the SA are worried about, surely there's a lesson here - the cost of change would be minimal, the legal protection is still there, and groups that can't afford to change would still be "on brand" with their existing signage, etc because the changes would not be noticeable to most people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    For the life of me I can't see what they will rebrand, the logo can't change(can it?). So I assume it will be some half baked initiative or liberal slogan they''ll impose in their own wonderful style.
    My guess is the'll have paid an agency a substantial sum, where designers sat around a table doodling until one of them had a eureka moment, "I've got it. We'll make the writing slanty the other way!" They all nodded in agreement and went of to enjoy the fee thy just earned.

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    Looking around our HQ the only logos to get changed are on the web + the odd keen leader who uses the latest ones on documents many still use the old ones.
    I guess we will still have the old brands still displayed long after the proposed new one is replaced ?
    Much better things to spend group money on

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    "The aim is to develop a brand that makes the benefits of Scouting clearer, is flexible enough to be used across the Movement, makes recruitment easier and will lead to better tools and resources. "

    If someone actually manages to pull that off, I'll be very impressed to the point of eating my newly off brand hat. Who wouldn't want to be the solution to the recruitment problem for example? Personally I think its more likely that all it will actually acheive is shifting financial resources that could be used to promote recruitment and providing better tools/resources away from TSA and into the pockets of some outside brand consultant.

    Bottom line is that the image problems we have - historic child abuse, overly religious, overly militaristic etc, aren't going to be solved by a new logo but by years of patient work with a generation of young people and parents so that those out dated views work their way out of the system.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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