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Thread: Well, time to face the photo permission issue..

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Well, time to face the photo permission issue..

    After all that has been said about photo permission it has finally happened. A complaint abut an image.

    When Child A and B joined, we were advised that they could not appear in any publicity images. We agreed and have managed to maintain that agreement by ensuring that they were never in any images that we used. So far, so good.

    Often, when parents have a chance, usually when we set off on a hike or we are kayaking, they take photographs. Sometimes they post them on our CLOSED FB Group. We have never had an isue to date.

    Then a group image taken by a parent appeared on the FB group. I checked it and there were no faces identifiable, certainly if you didn't know whowas there you could not identify any individuals. So I let it run.

    Last night I got an irate message inisting that I tell parents not to show images that included kids other than their own (ho humm - think about that for a second). Essentially, I was being told that we cannot use photography that included other peoples' children.

    I have had to make it clear that we do take photographs, that we do use them, that we can make exclusions, that we will censor photos posted by parents, but that we cannot control the images taken or used by others outside our FB Group.

    The irony is that when we ran an event with the local school last year we expected them to have a no photo rule - but they didn't and when asked about it they said, "How could we police it?"
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





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    I suspect you will be loosing the kids you aren't allowed to photograph. Realistically you can only control what is posted on your FB page, and if you decide to apply a more strict censorship you run the risk of upsetting a larger number of parents.

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    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    This is an issue that we have faced in the past, and it still occasionally crops up now. We make it clear that we take photographs for publicity reasons only, and most people are fine with that. There are one or two that request no photos etc and we respect their wishes.

    We do make it very clear that we cannot control the actions of those from outside our group though, especially at large and/or public events.

    Having said that, we try our best to work with people where we can.

    One interesting thing we have noticed though is that a number of parents are quite happy to have photos posted and videos on our website, but not on our Facebook page, private groups, Instagram or YouTube. Basically, the web is fine provided its not considered to be social media. I am not sure why this would be, but again we do our best.
    Last edited by lakes_stu; 30-01-2018 at 09:54 AM.
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    I suspect you will be loosing the kids you aren't allowed to photograph. Realistically you can only control what is posted on your FB page, and if you decide to apply a more strict censorship you run the risk of upsetting a larger number of parents.
    Sadly, I suspect that you may be correct.

    In this case the reasons are understandable BUT in a wider sense I think that we need to be very careful of allowing paranoia to destroy what we do.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Then a group image taken by a parent appeared on the FB group. I checked it and there were no faces identifiable, certainly if you didn't know whowas there you could not identify any individuals. So I let it run.

    Last night I got an irate message inisting that I tell parents not to show images that included kids other than their own (ho humm - think about that for a second). Essentially, I was being told that we cannot use photography that included other peoples' children.

    I have had to make it clear that we do take photographs, that we do use them, that we can make exclusions, that we will censor photos posted by parents, but that we cannot control the images taken or used by others outside our FB Group.
    I think one of the problems is that parents get so many different messages for different organisations that they get very different ideas of what the "normal rules" should be.

    One of my kids' schools asks parents taking photos at school shows not to post them on social media if they contain another child. Fair enough, it's a reasonable request. Parents then get the idea that this is a general rule which applies to all youth organisations. Another organisation may take the view that they can't possibly police that, so treat them as public events and let parents do whatever they want with the photos. Other organisations may take the view that banning parents taking photos altogether is the simplest way to avoid this issue altogether. In a way, all three are reasonable positions but it does mean that parents approaching your group may have very different preconceptions about what is reasonable use of photos.

    In your case, I guess it comes down making sure your policy is clear (which it sounds like it is) and communicating that clearly to parents. I imagine it helps if you can show the parent that they should have seen the policy (eg. were sent it in an email). Finally, although you can't necessarily control what parents post outside your facebook page, you can request. I think it's helpful to set out expected behaviour with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakes_stu View Post
    This is an issue that we have faced in the past, and it still occasionally crops up now. We make it clear that we take photographs for publicity reasons only, and most people are fine with that. There are one or two that request no photos etc and we respect their wishes.

    We do make it very clear that we cannot control the actions of those from outside our group though, especially at large and/or public events.

    Having said that, we try our best to work with people where we can.

    One interesting thing we have noticed though is that a number of parents are quite happy to have photos posted and videos on our website, but not on our Facebook page, private groups, Instagram or YouTube. Basically, the web is fine provided its not considered to be social media. I am not sure why this would be, but again we do our best.


    There is, from some sectors, a constant mantra that social media is a bad place where bad things happen. That puts those who do not understand it in a state of fear about the potential. It is the same old story, lack of understanding begets fear...

    The only other time I had an issue was many moons ago, I posted an image on our Scout website. In that image there was a lad with his back to the camera. If you did not know that it was his jacket you could not recognise him. I had to photoshop him out of what was an otherwise good PR image. Apparently he could not be photographed or have his photograph used in case he was recognised by his father.

    Two weeks later, mum used a photograph of him, with full name and contact details in a newspaper article promoting her business. One can only presume that the father did not read the papers, or the digital version of the papers, but instead scanned scout websites looking for images of his son... go figure...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    This is the nspcc view https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-...ages-guidance/
    There is quite a lot in there, including where images should be stored.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    This is the nspcc view https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-...ages-guidance/
    There is quite a lot in there, including where images should be stored.
    Most of that is common sense and most of it complied with - what we operate is opt out rather than opt in - though the idea that we should only use cameras owned by the organisation is a bit of a nonsense.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Most of that is common sense and most of it complied with - what we operate is opt out rather than opt in - though the idea that we should only use cameras owned by the organisation is a bit of a nonsense.
    It appears to be nonsense that a lot of schools comply with though!

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    Senior Member BalooNav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    It appears to be nonsense that a lot of schools comply with though!
    and to the point where parents may expect it. there was a complaint made to my kids school that a teacher was not using a school camera but his phone to take photos. these were going straight to twitter so a phone is more logical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BalooNav View Post
    and to the point where parents may expect it. there was a complaint made to my kids school that a teacher was not using a school camera but his phone to take photos. these were going straight to twitter so a phone is more logical.

    Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
    And of course as discussed in another thread only works for staff of that school. If they are out in public then anyone can do what they want in a public place.
    They have absolutely no control over that.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    It appears to be nonsense that a lot of schools comply with though!
    Maybe the NSPCC don't understand how a digital camera works...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    1) There are things that you can control: e.g. what leaders do with photos
    2) There are things that you can influence: e.g. what parents do with photos
    3) There are things you can do nothing about: e.g. what the general public do with photos.

    You can have a policy about (1), make polite requests about (2) and do nothing at all about (3).

    The trick is to get parents to understand this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakes_stu View Post
    This is an issue that we have faced in the past, and it still occasionally crops up now. We make it clear that we take photographs for publicity reasons only, and most people are fine with that. There are one or two that request no photos etc and we respect their wishes.

    We do make it very clear that we cannot control the actions of those from outside our group though, especially at large and/or public events.

    Having said that, we try our best to work with people where we can.

    One interesting thing we have noticed though is that a number of parents are quite happy to have photos posted and videos on our website, but not on our Facebook page, private groups, Instagram or YouTube. Basically, the web is fine provided its not considered to be social media. I am not sure why this would be, but again we do our best.
    If you were an estranged parent that was not allowed to see their children and you knew roughly where they lived. The local schools and youth organisation pages would likely be one of the first places to look.

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    Not a lot you can do about this. You can put as many controls in place as you like but you only have to be unlucky once. I have far more pressing matters to deal with being a Scout Leader, control of photography is somewhere very near the bottom of the pile. If a parent wants me to go to great extremes to ensure their son/daughter does not appear in any photographs then I would ask them to find a group that can more cater to their needs. Fortunately I have yet to be placed in this situation

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