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Thread: Darth Vader and the Face Veil

  1. #16
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    People who wear spectacles? They do limit your peripheral vision a bit, I tend to take mine off when instructing climbing so I am going to see something out of the corner of my eye, I don't need to see the other side of the field.

  2. #17
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    this thread has some brilliant responses

    http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=25933

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I believe it is accepted that a woman wearing the veil may reveal her face to another woman in a suitably private place in order to confirm identity or similar.
    Would 'a chap who dressed up in women’s clothes' be acceptable?

  5. #19
    Senior Member Ihatecamping's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    Would 'a chap who dressed up in women’s clothes' be acceptable?
    Can it be someone who identifies as female, or must proof be given before the unveiling? If so, in what form? Is Caitlin Jenner acceptable?
    The long march through the institutions is nearly complete.

  6. #20
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    The fellow in the original story does seem rather old fashioned. I think in the first instance, some training might be in order, if that is refused then I'm afraid I agree - they (or he) needs the boot.

    I've also had run-in's with leaders who've had issues with Scouts (officially) being at Pride marches. I personally don't go to them, (never been to one) and I have a bit of a problem with them anyway - but - I think its a good thing that Scouts have a presence because it helps to normalise homosexuality.

    I take issues with this notion that if Scouting Mag has some PC stuff in it, then its some how simultaneously being fluffy and ramming things down people's throats. You know what? All of my life I've had heterosexual ideas and notions rammed down my throat - which in turn often lead to all sorts of problems in terms of development among young folks. So, if the odd article appears, and it offends you so much - I'd say that's probably tough, but you need to suck it up because there's still a degree of redress to be carried out - as evidenced by the topic of this thread.

    Got to say, there is still a default level of prejudice about, its all the more harmful because people often don't realise they're doing it. If you are a member of a group to which that prejudice is unconsciously or unknowingly aimed - it can be a lot more harmful. At least if there's malice & aforethought involved - the people doing it could be said to at least care or thought something about it (even if it is completely negative). But to have so little regard & care that you don't even realise your doing it... Well, it always think that's so much worse.

    Usual caveats apply. If you're an adult, then you need to learn when not to take offence, but if there are kids about - they don't know they can do that, so are not able to fend for themselves. Instead they need and deserve our protection until they can.

    Is what I think...

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  8. #21
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    The advantages of diversity training is you get to know the difference between a hijab a niqab and a burka, so when someone wearing a niqab and a burka says she wears a hijab whilst hiking or for that matter canoeing you don't wonder how they can see.

    Or have I missed something.

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  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    The advantages of diversity training is you get to know the difference between a hijab a niqab and a burka, so when someone wearing a niqab and a burka says she wears a hijab whilst hiking or for that matter canoeing you don't wonder how they can see.

    Or have I missed something.
    The article actually says "In her full Islamic veil, Zainab cuts a striking figure when she takes the girls out canoeing, or goes hiking through the Yorkshire hills. " A full Islamic veil is a niqab? (The accompanying photo seems to support this).

    Perhaps they should have shown some photos of the activities - or maybe the couldn't get those photo permissions?
    Last edited by khoomei; 13-02-2018 at 06:54 PM.

  11. #23
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    This guys comments were very ill-judged.

    However, I am pro-choice so if wearing a Niqab is what the Group want to promote then so be it. So long as they are honest in the reasons for wearing them and actually educate the children.

  12. #24
    Senior Member Ihatecamping's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    The article actually says "In her full Islamic veil, Zainab cuts a striking figure when she takes the girls out canoeing, or goes hiking through the Yorkshire hills. " A full Islamic veil is a niqab? (The accompanying photo seems to support this).

    Perhaps they should have shown some photos of the activities - or maybe the couldn't get those photo permissions?
    There are some photos on the group’s Facebook page. Seems to be mainly headscarves, not the full set with gloves and everything.

    Canoeing in that lot doesn’t seem safe, but I would doubt that the risk assessment included the words ‘Darth’ and ‘Vader’.

    It is very difficult to get the balance of offence right. I find people dressing like that deeply offensive; I am not a potential rapist, and no-one needs to cover themselves like that. Dressing like that is, to me, at best impolite, at worst intentionally rude. Calling someone names is also rude. Maybe they BOTH could do with some diversity training.
    The long march through the institutions is nearly complete.

  13. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihatecamping View Post
    There are some photos on the group’s Facebook page. Seems to be mainly headscarves, not the full set with gloves and everything.

    Canoeing in that lot doesn’t seem safe, but I would doubt that the risk assessment included the words ‘Darth’ and ‘Vader’.

    It is very difficult to get the balance of offence right. I find people dressing like that deeply offensive; I am not a potential rapist, and no-one needs to cover themselves like that. Dressing like that is, to me, at best impolite, at worst intentionally rude. Calling someone names is also rude. Maybe they BOTH could do with some diversity training.
    Yes, I suspect very poor journalism is at fault.

    I agree that the guy appears to have totally misjudged his response. Maybe he is not a good Scout Leader, but maybe he isn't all bad.

    Perhaps I don't get out much, but I have never met someone in a niqab. It's an alien concept. My impression is that they are ultra-conservative and want to distance themselves from other people. Fair enough, I will keep away.

  14. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    The article actually says "In her full Islamic veil, Zainab cuts a striking figure when she takes the girls out canoeing, or goes hiking through the Yorkshire hills. " A full Islamic veil is a niqab? (The accompanying photo seems to support this).

    Perhaps they should have shown some photos of the activities - or maybe the couldn't get those photo permissions?
    What Zainab herself says is, "A couple of times we’ve been out on hikes in our hijabs and neckers, and people have come up to us and given us lots of positive comments."
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

  15. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    What Zainab herself says is, "A couple of times we’ve been out on hikes in our hijabs and neckers, and people have come up to us and given us lots of positive comments."
    Correct, and the journalist goes on to imply they have seen her canoeing and hiking in a full veil. I suspect this is a lie.

  16. #28
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    Perhaps people should question the motivation of his benefactor...

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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  18. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magician View Post
    Perhaps people should question the motivation of his benefactor...

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    They both seek publicity. The benefactors want to promote their ideas of 'Christian Values'. I suspect it is a marriage of convenience; they have money but not much support; he needs to claim discrimination on a protected characteristic (just being an idiot doesn't count) to stand any chance of winning (and he doesn't stand any chance, that's why they have gone to the papers and not the courts).
    Last edited by khoomei; 13-02-2018 at 08:57 PM.

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    There are a lot of people on this thread who are passing judgement on the wearing of some clothing without fully understanding what it stands for or what the *wearer* believes it represents.

    --
    Hathi, 2nd Streatham Hill Cubs, London
    --
    "Hathi"
    2nd Streatham Hill cubs, South London

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