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Thread: Gender Pay Gap Data

  1. #76
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    The sad thing is, the second sentence is probably true. Part of the pay gap is the facts that:

    1) Women are less likely to negotiate when offered a job (so start on less than a man would who would negotiate).
    2) Women are less likely to ask for a pay rise (meaning they don't get them as often, making the gap bigger).
    3) Women are only likely to apply for a role that they fit 90% of the description, where as man will apply at as low as 40%, meaning that women don't apply for higher paid jobs they could probably get.

    These are of course generalisations. I can't remember where I heard those stats but my experience bears them out. All that said, I've known men who stay in the same job for a long time, not accepting pay-rises then get upset when new staff negotiate better salaries on start.
    Bang on. And all the reasons you state are down to personality NOT gender. It just so-happens that generally woman have this personality trait more than men.

  2. #77
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    The intention might not be to give individual companies a kicking. The reality is that certain media outlets and social media is tending to do that. As an example my Twitter feed today threw up a caption someone had created about the local University with a date in October, and the caption, "this is when this organisation stops paying women" - presumably equating the percentage pay gap with a proportion of the year.

    But then again the same media outlets currently outraged by this disgraceful inequality this week, will be spending the next few weeks wondering when Meghan Markle is going to do the only thing they are interested in a female member of the royal family over - i.e. get pregnant.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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  4. #78
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    Yep, it's about gender inequality. It's almost certainly something systemic. The question is, how do you "fix" it? It's certainly not as simple as saying "these companies aren't doing well enough, they need a kicking."
    False. If it was about gender equality it would make no difference to the pay gap if women were less agreeable and negotiated harder. The science and facts state that women that negotiate hard and are less agreeable get the same opportunities as anyone else, male or female, that show the same characteristics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    How do you get that from what I have said?

    Are you suggesting that women are incapable of asking for a pay rise so should have special treatment in order to get a pay rise?
    No, it was your blase suggestion that they should have to ask for a pay rise.

    You've also missed a phase in the process. If women don't somehow feel empowered enough to do that, then why?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    Bang on. And all the reasons you state are down to personality NOT gender. It just so-happens that generally woman have this personality trait more than men.
    I don't even know how to respond to this...

  6. #80
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    But how are we going to equalise the gender imbalance on escouts? It's a blummin sausage fest around here! At least we're all paid the same I guess.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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  8. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    Bang on. And all the reasons you state are down to personality NOT gender. It just so-happens that generally woman have this personality trait more than men.
    Doesn't work like that. Otherwise you could have a rule that no-one gets maternity leave which wouldn't be discriminatory because it equally happens to men and women - it just happens that only women have this trait of giving birth! You can't have an "equal" policy that just happens to impact one protected characteristic over another - its indirect discrimination.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  9. #82
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    Doesn't work like that. Otherwise you could have a rule that no-one gets maternity leave which wouldn't be discriminatory because it equally happens to men and women - it just happens that only women have this trait of giving birth! You can't have an "equal" policy that just happens to impact one protected characteristic over another - its indirect discrimination.
    Well that is not really the same argument at all is it?

    How can you police personality traits? The more I think about it the more having true equality can only be achieved under communism.

  10. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    The intention might not be to give individual companies a kicking. The reality is that certain media outlets and social media is tending to do that. As an example my Twitter feed today threw up a caption someone had created about the local University with a date in October, and the caption, "this is when this organisation stops paying women" - presumably equating the percentage pay gap with a proportion of the year.

    But then again the same media outlets currently outraged by this disgraceful inequality this week, will be spending the next few weeks wondering when Meghan Markle is going to do the only thing they are interested in a female member of the royal family over - i.e. get pregnant.
    I wont argue with any of that

  11. #84
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    Well that is not really the same argument at all is it?

    How can you police personality traits? The more I think about it the more having true equality can only be achieved under communism.
    it's more than that, isn't it?

    Micro example: Our 7 yr old boy played with dolls for an afternoon at a friend's house and the friend's mother actually took my wife aside to have a word as she was worried about this abnormal behaviour!

    There are cultural changes still to be made. Dressing up outfits: in the boy section - doctors, in the girl section - nurses! this is improving but still needs work.

    A few years ago, there was a cleaning trolley for sale that was branded "girls only" and this crap goes on and on...

  12. #85
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    it's more than that, isn't it?

    Micro example: Our 7 yr old boy played with dolls for an afternoon at a friend's house and the friend's mother actually took my wife aside to have a word as she was worried about this abnormal behaviour!

    There are cultural changes still to be made. Dressing up outfits: in the boy section - doctors, in the girl section - nurses! this is improving but still needs work.

    A few years ago, there was a cleaning trolley for sale that was branded "girls only" and this crap goes on and on...
    Yeah if that was my son he would have been reprimanded for playing with dolls.

    Big wussey.....

  13. #86
    Senior Member Ihatecamping's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    Yeah if that was my son he would have been reprimanded for playing with dolls.

    Big wussey.....
    You're not a real man unless you've been shooting the heads off your sister's Barbies with an air rifle since you were 10.

    The female Cubs don't like it, but the rest of the Pack seems quite happy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think the place your started (the gender pay gap) has very little to do with the place you ended up (niche groups 'exposing' manufactured problems in society), although I agree with your destination.
    Oh aye, the long winter nights fly past in our house. Can you tell this isn't the first time I've thought about this??
    The long march through the institutions is nearly complete.

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  15. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihatecamping View Post
    Oh aye, the long winter nights fly past in our house. Can you tell this isn't the first time I've thought about this??
    The whole gender thing I try not to think about. I had to Google what a cis gay man was earlier this week.

  16. #88
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    Yeah if that was my son he would have been reprimanded for playing with dolls.

    Big wussey.....
    missing a smiley or just a bit of a ****?

  17. #89
    Senior Member Ihatecamping's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    The whole gender thing I try not to think about. I had to Google what a cis gay man was earlier this week.
    ...and my will to live is further reduced.

    I don’t call my mate a ‘cis gay man’; I call him ‘Steve’. I try not to think about it either.

    I’m looking for the ‘shakes head at bewilderment at the state of the world’ smiley, but can’t seem to find it. Must be my age.
    The long march through the institutions is nearly complete.

  18. #90
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Probably a bit of both ;-)

    However there is some truth in what I said.

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