Attention Span / Standing Still / Flossing

**recneps** · 07-06-2018, 07:52 AM

Curious as to what others think here.

We try to keep time spent standing still to a minimum. If we need to talk to the kids (talking Beavers and Cubs mainly here) for more than a few minutes about something we get them to sit down.

But at the moment they seem to be struggling to stand still for even a minute for flag break.

Last night I got fed up of the number of kids I had to tell off for "flossing" while badges were handed out / flag down was happening with our Cubs. Meanwhile 2 cubs were turning around and facing the other way.

Before anyone says it, i know they're kids. I ran a cub pack myself for 5 years. I know what they are and aren't capable of. But at the moment I wonder if my expectations that they can stand still for 2 minutes for flag break are clearly too high.

**Fordy101** · 07-06-2018, 08:00 AM

You are not alone on this one.

My Scouts struggle with standing still with the desire to play the fool/make others laugh/turn around and even FLOSS is too high for more than a few minutes. Don't get me started on the cubs. Our new CSL is already starting to show signs of strain when it comes to behavior and attention in the pack. We have the traffic light system for behavior and I am waiting for someone to get the red one. Any day now i'm sure.

I may suggest the sitting down until absolutely ready for flag break/down

**Ihatecamping** · 07-06-2018, 08:10 AM

Anyone flossing during Grand Howl gets to hop to the end of the hall and back. Nobody flosses at Grand Howl any more.

**chrisgeorge** · 07-06-2018, 08:18 AM

Dabbing - then flossing ... the bain of my life. My Cubs are under no illusion that it is acceptable although some do try it on. We operate a 'name on the board 3 times and you miss the next meeting' policy which works really well. Our beavers use it so they are well aware when they swim up!

So dabbing and flossing are (with fair tolerance) 'name on the board' offences. Just a reminder of it is enough to curtail most of it.

I make it clear what behaviour I expect at grand howl and flag down. I also don't let the parents in at the end of the night until I'm ready for them as they distract the kids.

Sure, the YP are not perfect and they fidget, but they're pretty good now... and yes, I try to keep the time to a minimum whilst still doing what I need to do.

**pa_broon74** · 07-06-2018, 08:59 AM

Hah, flossing...

This is a strangely compelling thing for the kids. They do it without realising most of the time - its almost subconscious. The dabbing thing is a bit more contextual, if they're just doing it for no reason, then its moved on to flossing grounds. (My contacts tell me, one dabs when one agrees wholeheartedly with a point being made.)

From memory, you're not the CSL are you... If the CSL's are struggling a bit, having a traffic light system before you are able to enforce it effectively is putting the cart before the horses (so to speak - and you'll know this, so sorry if its a gran-sucking-eggs-moment.)

We tried the traffic light thing, three strikes, the old SL loved the code of conduct. But if a basic level of order is not there, none of that will work. Until that point, its necessary to be a wee bit over the top and as you would imagine utterly consistent. I just sent/send them out, no muss no fuss, they're out the door for ten minutes. No time spent on why (they know why, they're not dumb). They're not coddled, I just tell them to get out.

Must admit, as a leader I don't have time for a traffic light system or keeping track of who has how many strikes. I kick them out, and if it persists in an evening (if I kick the same scout out more than once in the same night), I mention it to parents at the end of the night. I don't carry it over though, who can remember all that?

**nevynxxx** · 07-06-2018, 09:53 AM

Glad it's not just me that has these problems..... The "Light at the end of the tunnel" for me is that after this half term, I'll have a pack half the size, and relatively young, so they wont have had time to learn bad habits from the oldest cubs.... Should give me a good chance to get things more in order.

**chrisgeorge** · 07-06-2018, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by nevynxxx

Glad it's not just me that has these problems..... The "Light at the end of the tunnel" for me is that after this half term, I'll have a pack half the size, and relatively young, so they wont have had time to learn bad habits from the oldest cubs.... Should give me a good chance to get things more in order.

Sounds like a good opportunity to do a pack rules evening.. have a discussion with them to come up with ideas about rules/behaviours that they think they can agree to, make it fun and steer it to what you want... write it up, sstick it on the wall and get them all to sign it. This has been very effective for us because THEY defined them, THEY agreed to them so THEY can't complain about them! lol

:-)

Chris

**PaulArthurs** · 07-06-2018, 11:07 AM

Confused as to why the Cubs are attending to their dental hygiene during flag break??

Paul

**recneps** · 07-06-2018, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by pa_broon74

Hah, flossing...

This is a strangely compelling thing for the kids. They do it without realising most of the time - its almost subconscious. The dabbing thing is a bit more contextual, if they're just doing it for no reason, then its moved on to flossing grounds. (My contacts tell me, one dabs when one agrees wholeheartedly with a point being made.)

From memory, you're not the CSL are you... If the CSL's are struggling a bit, having a traffic light system before you are able to enforce it effectively is putting the cart before the horses (so to speak - and you'll know this, so sorry if its a gran-sucking-eggs-moment.)

We tried the traffic light thing, three strikes, the old SL loved the code of conduct. But if a basic level of order is not there, none of that will work. Until that point, its necessary to be a wee bit over the top and as you would imagine utterly consistent. I just sent/send them out, no muss no fuss, they're out the door for ten minutes. No time spent on why (they know why, they're not dumb). They're not coddled, I just tell them to get out.

Must admit, as a leader I don't have time for a traffic light system or keeping track of who has how many strikes. I kick them out, and if it persists in an evening (if I kick the same scout out more than once in the same night), I mention it to parents at the end of the night. I don't carry it over though, who can remember all that?

Correct - i'm not the CSL. However as GSL my role includes supporting the section leaders. Last night was the first time i'd been to Cubs for a while, and the problem was evident. I also covered Beavers at another group for a friend who was away and their beavers were at it as well.

**nevynxxx** · 07-06-2018, 11:29 AM

We may have bought a "floss like a boss" t shirt for our son....

**oneiros** · 07-06-2018, 11:54 AM

I confess, before this thread I'd never even heard of 'flossing' - turns out our Scouts do it all the time...

**mang21** · 07-06-2018, 12:59 PM

Mine get made to do press ups if I catch them flossing! (That and sitting on the invisible chair in the middle of the room if I catch them swinging on the back legs of their chairs!).

I'm afraid I sent (well actually took as he only lives just over the road) one home for the first time ever last night. He'd been warned a few times before half term, already warned that evening and when he started trying to rearrange the teams I'd put them in so he could be back with his partner in crime I'm afraid it was the final straw. Fortunately I know his mum well enough that she apologised to me for having to bring him home - he got as far as the foot of his steps and realised that I was serious which was when the bargaining started. He's not a bad lad, just needs to learn when to wind his neck in - hopefully the realisation that I will actually do it should be enough.

**pa_broon74** · 07-06-2018, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by chrisgeorge

Sounds like a good opportunity to do a pack rules evening.. have a discussion with them to come up with ideas about rules/behaviours that they think they can agree to, make it fun and steer it to what you want... write it up, sstick it on the wall and get them all to sign it. This has been very effective for us because THEY defined them, THEY agreed to them so THEY can't complain about them! lol

:-)

Chris

Mmm...

The caveat being, you need to have a basic level of order in place to begin with... We sat our Scouts down and did the whole CoC and sanctions - it just didn't work. It felt like teaching them how to storm lash an Icelandic without first teaching them how to put it up - to coin a topical phrase.

The other thing is, you need to then stick rigidly to it at all times.

If your crowd is excitable, watch how they behave, a lot of it is impulsive. Whether its flossing at flag break or over-enthusiastic dabbing during activities. The furthest thing from their minds is a CoC and any sanctions codified there-in.

We're (mostly) on top of it now, but we had to lose the blue touch paper kids first... For what it's worth, I still don't think a CoC would work for us, all it would do is set out the when and how we punish kids, when we'd rather they didn't do whatever it was they did in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by recneps

Correct - i'm not the CSL. However as GSL my role includes supporting the section leaders. Last night was the first time i'd been to Cubs for a while, and the problem was evident. I also covered Beavers at another group for a friend who was away and their beavers were at it as well.

I offered to go to a beaver meeting in our group. The BSL's were a bit new, they said (with some consternation) that when the asked beavers to get into teams or arrange themselves generally - they would do it, but at the same time scream and scream and scream. I went down and stood outside for a bit, it was really odd. Every now and again, there would be this absolute cacophony of noise - so high pitched... Anyone near the hall would visible halt and look to where the noise was coming from (our scout hall...)

I went in, waved hello to the BSL's and stood at the top of the hall - and - nothing. No screams at all.

I think it was just some weird pack mentality thing, one or two decide to do it and it sets of a chain reaction. I think the flossing thing is the same. Its already dying out with our lot. There'll be something else next, no idea what.

**bluesam3** · 07-06-2018, 02:42 PM

If you can't stand still while we're doing flag break/whatever, we'll tell you to sit down. When we're done, everybody who was standing still and paying attention will go outside and play a game while those that weren't stand up and try again.

**oneiros** · 07-06-2018, 02:53 PM

I've never really found the whole #youshaped creation of a Code of Conduct to be particularly helpful.

In theory, yes they're signing up to something that they notionally agree with. But in practice, they have to be steered and directed to create a viable CoC; so much so, that it doesn't really represent their will at all. They agree in principle I suppose; but in practice they still want to chat to their mates in the horseshoe, even if the CoC insists on silence.