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Thread: Beavers "too tired" to move on to Cubs - what to do?

  1. #31
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    The other thing we need to bear in mind before criticising parents is that there are often other factors at play (which may not be relevant in this specific example).

    OK so one eight year old might be able to stay up later once a week and deal with it - so its no problem right?

    What if that eight year old has a five year old sibling that Mum has to drag out with them at collection time because she's parenting alone or because Dad works late? I regularly have Cubs picked up at 8pm by a parent with another younger child in pyjamas and a dressing gown so they can go straight to bed when they get in. Clearly they deal with that but it might just be that the difference between my current 8pm finish and a later 8:30pm finish would go beyond their tolerances. (Substitute younger sibling for partner that has to leave for shift work etc, an earlier than 7am start because parent needs to leave for work early and so disturbs the house etc).

    We absolutely have the right to plan sessions for when they work for us and ask parents to work within that - but equally they have the right to consider what is right for their family and make decisions based on that. Just as we'd bridle at parents assuming that surely we can easily change our session times, I think its a bit presumptuous of us, almost certainly without the full information of what is going on in a family, to assume they can fit round us.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    The other thing we need to bear in mind before criticising parents is that there are often other factors at play (which may not be relevant in this specific example).

    OK so one eight year old might be able to stay up later once a week and deal with it - so its no problem right?

    What if that eight year old has a five year old sibling that Mum has to drag out with them at collection time because she's parenting alone or because Dad works late? I regularly have Cubs picked up at 8pm by a parent with another younger child in pyjamas and a dressing gown so they can go straight to bed when they get in. Clearly they deal with that but it might just be that the difference between my current 8pm finish and a later 8:30pm finish would go beyond their tolerances. (Substitute younger sibling for partner that has to leave for shift work etc, an earlier than 7am start because parent needs to leave for work early and so disturbs the house etc).

    We absolutely have the right to plan sessions for when they work for us and ask parents to work within that - but equally they have the right to consider what is right for their family and make decisions based on that. Just as we'd bridle at parents assuming that surely we can easily change our session times, I think its a bit presumptuous of us, almost certainly without the full information of what is going on in a family, to assume they can fit round us.
    I absolutely agree. 8.30 is late - not my opinion just that every single Cub pack in this district finishes at 8pm or earlier. So it doesn't matter what we think as leaders, or as parents, the majority of packs, their leaders and presumable parents think that 8pm is a better time to finish. I don't think the answer is "take it or leave", but certainly to explore ways of making it work to finish earlier.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    I absolutely agree. 8.30 is late - not my opinion just that every single Cub pack in this district finishes at 8pm or earlier. So it doesn't matter what we think as leaders, or as parents, the majority of packs, their leaders and presumable parents think that 8pm is a better time to finish. I don't think the answer is "take it or leave", but certainly to explore ways of making it work to finish earlier.
    I think it does matter what leaders think. That would be the prevailing situation in your district, we all have to work within the individual constraints we have in place.

    At the end of the day, if 8:30 was an affront to good parenting everywhere, that cub pack wouldn't have any cubs - obviously there are parents who are happy with an 8:30 finish even if they'd prefer an 8pm finish. Our Cubs finish at 8:15, we've had no complaints.

    People know what they know, if cubs have always finished at 8:30, then that's what they'll be used to.

    In terms of the the original post... If they were to allow one kid to stay on till 8.5, then others may want to do the same. Since we don't send kids upon there birthdays - if leaders are moving members on every six months say, the OP could end up with beavers that are closer to age 9 than to age 8.

    So they need to draw the line somewhere. How you present that to parents is the thing though, no point in getting all final about it, some sort of compromise must be possible.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think it does matter what leaders think. That would be the prevailing situation in your district, we all have to work within the individual constraints we have in place.

    At the end of the day, if 8:30 was an affront to good parenting everywhere, that cub pack wouldn't have any cubs - obviously there are parents who are happy with an 8:30 finish even if they'd prefer an 8pm finish. Our Cubs finish at 8:15, we've had no complaints.

    People know what they know, if cubs have always finished at 8:30, then that's what they'll be used to.

    In terms of the the original post... If they were to allow one kid to stay on till 8.5, then others may want to do the same. Since we don't send kids upon there birthdays - if leaders are moving members on every six months say, the OP could end up with beavers that are closer to age 9 than to age 8.

    So they need to draw the line somewhere. How you present that to parents is the thing though, no point in getting all final about it, some sort of compromise must be possible.
    I checked our county directory and a few packs (less than 10) in over 150 meet that late. Although a similar number meet on Saturday mornings which was a revelation to me. Anyway, where there's a choice people can go elsewhere, presenting an ultimatum always risks (albeit rarely) a battle which won't be won by the leader.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    I checked our county directory and a few packs (less than 10) in over 150 meet that late. Although a similar number meet on Saturday mornings which was a revelation to me. Anyway, where there's a choice people can go elsewhere, presenting an ultimatum always risks (albeit rarely) a battle which won't be won by the leader.
    Mmm...

    Not sure it's about winning a battle, I'm not sure what would constitute a win(or a loss) for the leader anyway. If a parent thinks Cubs finishes to late for their sprog (or for any other reason), they have the right to look elsewhere, I wouldn't say it was an ultimatum, it's just how things work.

  7. #36
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    We run 7pm-8.30pm. Even then it's tight for one of our leaders to get back from work in time. Starting earlier would make recruiting leaders even harder as our Beavers (6pm start) know to their cost.
    Kate, CSL (and GDB(S))
    1st Weald Brook Scout Group
    Brentwood, Essex
    www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

  8. #37
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    Our Hall has restricted parking so the parents often liftshare. Although we finish at 8, by the time they have all been dropped off its easily 9 before the driver's kids get to bed. Having been through this as a parent I'd say it was just about do-able. However, if they're out other nights of the week as well it will have a cumulative effect and given the current pressures from the schools any excuse is jumped upon to explain 'poor performance' for want of a better word - its easier to blame the cubs late finish than the X-box or whatever that they spend time on once Mum & dad think they're asleep for the night.

    In the OP situation I'd point out that the Beaver spaces have gone and the cub ones are available until they are 8.5 after which they will be offered out as well. The two beavers then have a choice - although not entirely the one they were after. We've had a couple of cubs take a term off because it clashes with drama rehearsals or in one case because she is doing football training for a local premiership club. They are included in weekend activities and we'll welcome them back when they can attend. I suspect not all leaders would be this flexible but I always believe some scouting is better than none. In the latter case how many Cub packs can say they have one of their cubs on-loan to a premiership football club?

    I always believe flexibility is the best approach but they are your rules and you should apply them as you seem fit to accomodate your particular situation. Alternatively, are there any local packs that do finish at 8 that they could join instead?
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

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