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Thread: gdpr - sigh and haha

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    1) Depends on how jobs-worthy people are up the line. (So no change with anything POR-related really...)

    2) We only BCC with parents. We've been CC'ing leaders for years. The only reasons I can think of to stop would be daft bureaucratic-nonsense, so we continue as we are.

    Some of our leaders have a tendency of pressing the "reply all" button when they only want to reply to one person. That's a reason.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesam3 View Post
    Some of our leaders have a tendency of pressing the "reply all" button when they only want to reply to one person. That's a reason.
    as is the fact that some individuals will forward a message without removing details of all the original recipients
    Kate, CSL (and GDB(S))
    1st Weald Brook Scout Group
    Brentwood, Essex
    www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    Sorry to bring the subject up again but can someone please clarify

    1) What are we supposed to do with Leaders who don't complete the mandatory Training by 31st December?

    2) Do emails that copy in 20+ leaders breach GDPR - we have two schools of thought - one its effectively an internal email so is fine, OR the addresses are Private data and should not be shared. (Presumably its ok if the sender just uses the [email protected] addresses we're busy setting up). Personally, I read the training that it was a breach so just bcc everyone to keep it safe, but this does prevent the old Reply all responses that clog up our inboxes and/or create interesting debates
    1. It will be interesting as I can't say that I have seen much in National or County publications - bearing in mind that that it covers all roles whether Leadership, Management or Exec etc.
    Had absolutely nothing from District since June except a message telling me that my First Aid was overdue and need to renew it urgently. Here is a list of courses in the District.

    Funny really as I am not in a role that has to have one.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesam3 View Post
    Some of our leaders have a tendency of pressing the "reply all" button when they only want to reply to one person. That's a reason.
    Contacts in the Bcc fields are not included in reply all's, only contacts in clear fields - if someone who was in the Bcc field of an email replies all - it only goes to people in clear fields.

    And if original recipients who's addresses you don't want to share are in the Bcc field - it won't be on any forwarded mails.

    (In terms of CC'ing leaders instead of Bcc'ing them. It seems to me, to promote openness and transparency, this is a good thing. Or are we not encouraging that any more? And, if a leader doesn't know how email works, then maybe someone could just show them? I reply all to group emails so everyone knows what I've said, why wouldn't you?)
    Last edited by pa_broon74; 06-12-2018 at 09:51 AM.

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  6. #20
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    I get emails from District where they've been BCC'd.

    They say "Hi all" at the beginning so I know it's been sent to more than one person, but because I don't know who it's been sent to I've no idea if I'm supposed to pass it on to the rest of the Group or whether they've already had it.

    The last one was a reminder about GDPR which has a certain irony.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Contacts in the Bcc fields are not included in reply all's, only contacts in clear fields - if someone who was in the Bcc field of an email replies all - it only goes to people in clear fields.

    And if original recipients who's addresses you don't want to share are in the Bcc field - it won't be on any forwarded mails.
    Yes, that's exactly the point.

    (In terms of CC'ing leaders instead of Bcc'ing them. It seems to me, to promote openness and transparency, this is a good thing. Or are we not encouraging that any more? And, if a leader doesn't know how email works, then maybe someone could just show them? I reply all to group emails so everyone knows what I've said, why wouldn't you?)
    No. That's exactly the problem. Unless I need the information, it shouldn't be going to me. I don't want spam in my inbox.

  9. #22
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I reply all to group emails so everyone knows what I've said, why wouldn't you?)
    because the other people rarely care and it is desperately annoying to most people

    it is like the leader who asks a question specific to them and their situation at a district meeting that could easily be asked afterwards...

  10. #23
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    because the other people rarely care and it is desperately annoying to most people

    it is like the leader who asks a question specific to them and their situation at a district meeting that could easily be asked afterwards...
    This tenfold in a work environment! I, as finance manager in an SME, get no end emails because a project manager emails an engineer about a project and asks me, almost as an aside, to arrange a payment to a sub-contract engineer. I do my bit and then get endless copies of emails between the engineer and the PM, as why the job is going t--ts up!

    There is nothing I can do about it, so just take me off the email, pleeeease!
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  11. #24
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    The nice thing about groups and distribution lists in Office 365 is that they can be 'moderated' i.e. specified users can send to them without moderation while all others will need their emails to be approved or declined. This stops the reply to all problem.

  12. #25
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    Not sure why people are getting so bent out of shape about replying to all.

    I'm talking about half a dozen interested parties. It's a small scout group, not a company employing thousands of people.

    I work for one of Scotland's biggest (the biggest?) employers, of course I don't reply all to emails there. (Although it is invariably entertaining when someone does. For example, and I'm going to digress... That time when facilities sent an email out about the state a toilet cubicle was left in by an anonymous employee who'd obviously had some enthusiastic bowel movements. Someone replied all in error, its fair to say, we all felt the gentleman doth protested too much...)

    I expect folks would moan if the opposite happened - if they should've been copied in on a reply - but weren't.

    Cannae win.

  13. #26
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    So I question why make something mandatory and then not take any action - it rather makes the whole exercise pointless. The test at the end doesn't require you to get them all right- just to have completed the training, so again why bother - So someone has completed the training yet didn't understand a single thing and will just carry on doing their own thing anyway. I just hope that level of comprehension/application doesn't extend to other more important scouting requirements to do with air rifles, ropes, boats etc.

    I'm inclined to just bcc all my scouting emails nowadays as there appears to be no definitive answer (which I had rather hoped the training would provide). BCC certainly stops the harvesting of personal email addresses when someone gets hacked as it was amazing how many of our leaders had been mugeed whilst on holiday in Lithuania a couple of years back.

    Therefore if anyone with the definitive answer from HQ reads these posts nowadays could we all please have a definitive answer or could the training be tightened up so no-one is left in any doubt what we should be doing?
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    Therefore if anyone with the definitive answer from HQ reads these posts nowadays could we all please have a definitive answer or could the training be tightened up so no-one is left in any doubt what we should be doing?
    There is no definitive answer. Even the ICO doesn’t understand the GDPR yet.

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  16. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    So I question why make something mandatory and then not take any action - it rather makes the whole exercise pointless. The test at the end doesn't require you to get them all right- just to have completed the training, so again why bother - So someone has completed the training yet didn't understand a single thing and will just carry on doing their own thing anyway. I just hope that level of comprehension/application doesn't extend to other more important scouting requirements to do with air rifles, ropes, boats etc.

    I'm inclined to just bcc all my scouting emails nowadays as there appears to be no definitive answer (which I had rather hoped the training would provide). BCC certainly stops the harvesting of personal email addresses when someone gets hacked as it was amazing how many of our leaders had been mugeed whilst on holiday in Lithuania a couple of years back.

    Therefore if anyone with the definitive answer from HQ reads these posts nowadays could we all please have a definitive answer or could the training be tightened up so no-one is left in any doubt what we should be doing?
    One of the questions in the test was about emails. The answer was send individual or BCC then it explained that.

    I also understand that you can score low enough to have to take the questions again to get a score sufficient to get the certificate.

    If not you could just jump through the info to the quiz and answer everything wrong just to say you have done it. That would be pointless and not within the Scout spirit. But pests face it that spirit is not there with some.

  17. #29
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    One of the questions in the test was about emails. The answer was send individual or BCC then it explained that.
    I thought the answer made it pretty clear but still there seems to be misunderstanding

    I also understand that you can score low enough to have to take the questions again to get a score sufficient to get the certificate.
    Ok - fair enough, I'll have a go at getting it wrong and see what happens!

    If not you could just jump through the info to the quiz and answer everything wrong just to say you have done it. That would be pointless and not within the Scout spirit. But pests face it that spirit is not there with some.
    This attitude worries me and makes me wonder what other 'rules' etc are being given the same treatment. We want to be leaders in an organisation that has rules. However irritating/irrelevant those rules might seem to us as Leaders we have the obligation to follow them and set an example to others to be following them. We can't pick and choose the bits we like and ignore the rest, tempting as it may be.
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    We want to be leaders in an organisation that has rules. However irritating/irrelevant those rules might seem to us as Leaders we have the obligation to follow them and set an example to others to be following them. We can't pick and choose the bits we like and ignore the rest, tempting as it may be.
    Mmm...

    I think we have a bigger duty to think critically about these rules. There is also a bit of a Gordian knot with POR, it's so over-engineered, its almost impossible to follow all of it anyway.

    I think we also have a duty not to be seen sticking to rules that are obviously stupid, because that then makes us look stupid.

    This is not an example I want to set.

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