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Thread: POR Updated

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    POR Updated

    POR seems to have been updated again, details of changes at: https://scouts.org.uk/media/980476/Amendments.pdf

    Mass emails were sent out by Gilwell last night, but no mention of updated NAN or POR. HQ communications at its best :-(



    Paul

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    Fairly minor. But yes, typically appalling comms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Fairly minor. But yes, typically appalling comms.
    They didn't always get it right under Wayne's regime.
    But it's almost like they're not even trying nowadays.

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    The Emporer was building a tower to oversee his people. At first it was a small tower, and it's construction was simple. But as time passed he realised that he couldn't see all of his people, so he went to his Chancellor and suggested that they build a new, bigger tower. The Chancellor thought about it, did some calculations, and advised that it would be fine if they just added to the original tower. So, the tower grew.

    Emporers come and go, and this one was replaced in due course, and the new Emperor kept adding to the tower, but he used a different architect and there were clashes with the design laid out by the initial architect. This went on for the next few Emporers, until there came a point where they could build the tower no taller. However, the Emperor of the day needed changes to be made. His people were more than ever before and their needs more complex. So he had the tower modified enlarging doors, putting in new doors, closing this window off and outting in a new one here, replacing the stairs with escalators.

    None of this bothered the Emperor, he was happily playing with his tower. However, his people realised that the changes made here, impacted there. The larger doors allowed more to pass, but the narrow corridors held them back. The movement of the windows darkened some areas and highlighted others, the old stairs allowed them to get off wherever they wanted, the escalators only had a start and finish point.

    The people petitioned the Emporer to buld a new tower with all the modern conveniences that they needed, the old tower was no longer suitable with its varying designs and architecture. The Emperor thought about it and eventually said, but what do we do with the old tower, we can't just knock it down, it has many good points? So they discussed the project and agreed to modify the tower.

    Meanwhile, sat in a cafe in the casbah, a philosopher puffed at his pipe and thought. "If we did build a new tower today. People would want to change it tomorrow..." His friend, an engineer, thought that it could be built better regardless. The mechanic sitting with them added, "It fits where it touches, and it sort of works, it'll do." (and the Irishman across the room looked at them and said, "If I were youse, I wouldn't be starting from where you are..."
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by itchen View Post
    They didn't always get it right under Wayne's regime.
    But it's almost like they're not even trying nowadays.
    I do get the feeling the standard generally at Gilwell has reduced since Wayne's tenure, I agree. It's not like the sometimes arrogant "we know best" bad times of the 1990s, it just seems a bit more "trial and error" than it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I do get the feeling the standard generally at Gilwell has reduced since Wayne's tenure, I agree. It's not like the sometimes arrogant "we know best" bad times of the 1990s, it just seems a bit more "trial and error" than it was.
    Not waving but drowning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I do get the feeling the standard generally at Gilwell has reduced since Wayne's tenure, I agree. It's not like the sometimes arrogant "we know best" bad times of the 1990s, it just seems a bit more "trial and error" than it was.
    Wayne oversaw the Compass debacle, in industry heads would have rolled and lessons learned and rolled out. Here we got a letter. I only saw him in action once at a conference where he batted away any critical questions about the movement with trump like efficiency and even suggested one leader might consider their position in working with YP. I'm not convinced that one person makes the difference.

    It might stun some people but in our recent district leaders meeting the level of care about county and HQ is microscopic, totally invisible to the day to day operations of a group. I've always found Gilwell responsive by phone (except during Compass), although not always confident or consistent in their advice !

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    "........where he batted away any critical questions about the movement with trump like efficiency............"

    I always found in my time in TSA that the higher up the organisation you went the truer that became, so as he was "top of the tree" he was presumably an expert batter!
    Peter

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    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Wayne oversaw the Compass debacle, in industry heads would have rolled and lessons learned and rolled out. Here we got a letter. I only saw him in action once at a conference where he batted away any critical questions about the movement with trump !
    Wayne oversaw the Compass debacle, in industry heads would have been promoted and lessons learned and adjusted to paint a picture of success, only someone very low on the food chain would have been at risk of the sack if for no other reason they could embarrass the senior managers.

    Wayne batting away any critical questions about the movement is normal behaviour for senior managers, CEO's etc.

    There, fixed it for you. (Thankfully retired and away from all that crap in industry)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    Wayne oversaw the Compass debacle, in industry heads would have been promoted and lessons learned and adjusted to paint a picture of success, only someone very low on the food chain would have been at risk of the sack if for no other reason they could embarrass the senior managers.

    Wayne batting away any critical questions about the movement is normal behaviour for senior managers, CEO's etc.

    There, fixed it for you. (Thankfully retired and away from all that crap in industry)
    Try asking Paul Pester to think of a very recent example he rather regrets the Tsb It upgrade.

    I do know quite a bit about the compass debacle some of which is from a confidential source but the most obvious and well known stupidity was abandoning the plan to introduce it incrementally and demands the entire country use this new and lightly tested system within a short timescale. Then it added insult to injury to blame security for its withdrawal when it had been impossible to log in day after day after day owing to the system being down or overloaded.

    And for the rest? I suppose I hoped for better from Wayne by the rather dismissive way he treated his audience at that one session in which I saw him in action.
    Last edited by RisingStar; 06-10-2018 at 07:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Try asking Paul Pester to think of a very recent example he rather regrets the Tsb It upgrade.

    I do know quite a bit about the compass debacle some of which is from a confidential source but the most obvious and well known stupidity was abandoning the plan to introduce it incrementally and demands the entire country use this new and lightly tested system within a short timescale. Then it added insult to injury to blame security for its withdrawal when it had been impossible to log in day after day after day owing to the system being down or overloaded.

    And for the rest? I suppose I hoped for better from Wayne by the rather dismissive way he treated his audience at that one session in which I saw him in action.

    There was an actual security issue as well (probably several: I raised one of them after I was able to access literally everything the first time I logged in).

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post

    I suppose I hoped for better from Wayne by the rather dismissive way he treated his audience at that one session in which I saw him in action.
    Ultimately, we all fell for Wayne in the traditional Emperors Coat tradition. To give him the benefit of the doubt, trying to oversee TSA must be like herding cats that turn out to be a mix of monkeys and frogs.
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    And for the rest? I suppose I hoped for better from Wayne by the rather dismissive way he treated his audience at that one session in which I saw him in action.
    He was helpful to me when I button-holed him on a matter at G24 once. Came across well. And give him his due, no one else from HQ has come here and answered our stupid questions. I do seem to recall it seemed like he rattled some cages when necessary from things said here. Not every time, granted, but enough to make me think well of him.

    Fanboy stuff aside, yeah, compass, that was a debacle, no doubt about it.
    Ian Wilkins
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Ultimately, we all fell for Wayne in the traditional Emperors Coat tradition. To give him the benefit of the doubt, trying to oversee TSA must be like herding cats that turn out to be a mix of monkeys and frogs.
    I swapped a number of emails on various subjects with Wayne, and found him courteous and helpful. He spent 7 years as UKCC, travelling 20+ weekends a year all over the country from his base in Guernsey, trying to pushing scouting forward; few people would have the energy to do that. I would not judge him by the Compass system implementation failure alone; more by the fact the Scouting is continuing to grow.
    A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room. Baden-Powell

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