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Thread: Cut resistant gloves for Knife, Axe, Saw

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    Cut resistant gloves for Knife, Axe, Saw

    Hi

    I am thinking of buying some cut resistant gloves for our Beavers/Cubs and Scouts for use when teaching Knife, Axe and Saw.

    Looking on Amazon they are about 8.99 per pair. Does anyone know of a supplier that might do a lower price for an order of 60 pairs?

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    Medicationed BenOfThe12th's Avatar
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    Save your money and buy plasters.
    Sounds cruel, but once they understand the dangers of these implements they will respect them more.
    We ran knife with Beavers and had a single slight cut finger and Cubs who had 3.
    All safely managed and dealt with.

    ** Warning ** I like my humour Very DRY, same as my Martinis, so don't take anything personally..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenOfThe12th View Post
    Save your money and buy plasters.
    Sounds cruel, but once they understand the dangers of these implements they will respect them more.
    We ran knife with Beavers and had a single slight cut finger and Cubs who had 3.
    All safely managed and dealt with.
    I kind of agree - however it does seam a bit cruel to start the training without any consideration of safety.

    I personally wear protective gloves when I am using a bow saw (having previously badly cut my own hand) - is it not better to provide sensible protective gloves at the start?

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    Medicationed BenOfThe12th's Avatar
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    Your section your choice.

    Teach good practice rather than relying on PPE.
    There will always be accidents, so prepare for that eventually instead.
    RA and carry on.

    ** Warning ** I like my humour Very DRY, same as my Martinis, so don't take anything personally..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenOfThe12th View Post
    Your section your choice.

    Teach good practice rather than relying on PPE.
    There will always be accidents, so prepare for that eventually instead.
    RA and carry on.
    I like to start with the PPE. Teach how to do it safely and let them practice. Then allow them to do it without the PPE once they understand how to do it without hurting themselves.

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    If the young person cannot understand / follow instructions on how to use an axe (knife or saw) safely, seems they are too young to use an axe (knife, or saw) to me. They are useful tools in the right hands, but trying to teach those skills to those not ready for them seems pointless?

    Axes and bow saws take a level of both physical strength and coordination that I would think few Cubs have (having watched 11 year old Scouts being barely capable of using them to useful effect when greenfield camping when amounts of wood need to regularly cut up for cooking fires).
    A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room. Baden-Powell

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    It never occurred to me to do this. It seems to fly in the face of what Scouts is for.

    Since they're not always going to have PPE, I would've thought, using it in/for practice would be counter-productive.

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    Senior Member Mark's Avatar
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    My approach to PPE and conkers:

    This Thursday we will be playing conkers. I don’t think it counts towards any badges, it’s just good fun.

    As well as being fun conkers can apparently cause injury – that’s why it's been banned in schools (or so I hear). Well it hasn’t been banned in our Cub Pack, but you may get a whack on the wrist or fingers from a conker if it goes wrong. There have apparently been reports of conkers being banned in case they explode and cause injuries to your eyes. If this is a concern to you, you may choose to wear safety goggles or a welding mask. Please bring your own, along with any other personal protective equipment like cricket boxes, gauntlets and any other body armour you think necessary.

    Alternatively if you are not fussed about any of this please just turn up and have fun playing conkers, just like most of us used to do when we were children (and some of us still do even now).
    Mark
    You can contact Mark via www.4theastcotescouts.org.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    It never occurred to me to do this. It seems to fly in the face of what Scouts is for.

    Since they're not always going to have PPE, I would've thought, using it in/for practice would be counter-productive.
    Each to their own I guess but I think it is a little strange. We introduce Beavers/Cubs to archery using 'sucker' archery and then progress on to real bows/arrows. I really don't see why you would not teach bow saw use or early knife work with gloves on. I wear gloves when I am doing something that might hurt my hands, but I learn to do it safely without when I need to - why not teach the kids the same thing?

    A slip with a bow saw can make a real mess of the back your hand - I know I have done it. I don't buy the idea that using gloves is teaching bad habits. You teach them to use the tools at their disposal - if there are gloves wear them, if not accept the higher risk - but understand that risk.

    I am not saying that I would insist on gloves - just that they can be useful when teaching early skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    Each to their own I guess but I think it is a little strange. We introduce Beavers/Cubs to archery using 'sucker' archery and then progress on to real bows/arrows.
    No we don't. I don't anyway. We use real pointy arrows and start by explaining that it could be dangerous so we have to keep to the rules: shooting line, arrows always point downrange, wait for the whistle, don't walk straight towards the target, etc. I have never seen, either in Scouting or in club archery, an injury caused by the point of an arrow. (I have seen injuries caused by the nocks of arrows, walking into them when they are stuck in the ground or in the target - because it is easy to forget that they are sharp too.)

    Same with knives, we start by explaining that it could be dangerous so we have to keep to the rules. And they do because it could be. But why bother being careful if you've already removed the danger?
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    No we don't. I don't anyway. We use real pointy arrows and start by explaining that it could be dangerous so we have to keep to the rules: shooting line, arrows always point downrange, wait for the whistle, don't walk straight towards the target, etc. I have never seen, either in Scouting or in club archery, an injury caused by the point of an arrow. (I have seen injuries caused by the nocks of arrows, walking into them when they are stuck in the ground or in the target - because it is easy to forget that they are sharp too.)

    Same with knives, we start by explaining that it could be dangerous so we have to keep to the rules. And they do because it could be. But why bother being careful if you've already removed the danger?
    Like I say, we all do these things in different ways, but I don't really buy the logic that young people can not understand the risks if they are taught to use appropriate equipment when it is available. We use safety equipment when climbing, we have padded floors in climbing walls etc. Not teaching them to use safety equipment that is readily available feels perverse to me. It is not the same as insisting that they must always use it. If you are learning to be a trapeze artist you start with a net under you.

    I guess we have different experiences. I know that I wish I was wearing gloves when the bow saw slipped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    Each to their own I guess but I think it is a little strange. We introduce Beavers/Cubs to archery using 'sucker' archery and then progress on to real bows/arrows. I really don't see why you would not teach bow saw use or early knife work with gloves on. I wear gloves when I am doing something that might hurt my hands, but I learn to do it safely without when I need to - why not teach the kids the same thing?

    A slip with a bow saw can make a real mess of the back your hand - I know I have done it. I don't buy the idea that using gloves is teaching bad habits. You teach them to use the tools at their disposal - if there are gloves wear them, if not accept the higher risk - but understand that risk.

    I am not saying that I would insist on gloves - just that they can be useful when teaching early skills.
    Its not that it teaches bad habits, it's that it mitigates the teaching of good habits - is where I am with it.

    In which regard, I'd apply the same reasoning to archery. (Although, with younger sections, all activities would be scaled down anyway... Smaller bows/knifes etc.)

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    I agree about doing things in different ways, often driven by different experiences.

    I also have problems with the other side of the argument, particularly Ben of the 12th "We ran knife with Beavers and had a single slight cut finger and Cubs who had 3". To me, finishing the session with 3 cut fingers would be an unacceptable outcome. We teach use of knives in very small groups with close supervision so that a) we are sure that usage is safe and b) there is minimum distraction and c) it is appropriate for each individual. I would not think about teaching use of knives to the Pack as a whole. So I found your suggestion of buying 60 pairs of gloves a bit unsettling!

    I've got no problem with use of PPE - if it doesn't change the activity. I don't like sucker arrows because it's a different activity, it's playing with a toy, it doesn't carry the same mental or emotional weight as shooting a proper bow. I think being introduced to knives whilst wearing a glove would similarly alter the activity.* Climbing with belaying doesn't change the activity, it's how they will continue - until they are old enough to decide on free climbing for themselves.

    * although I can see a place for gloves in subsequent sessions, after the respect and skills have been learnt, to support 'everyday' use.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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    I've used knives at work and taught adults. Some choose to wear plasters when they start learning technics others don't. Both will eventually cut themselves. The ones who wear plasters will be the ones who do more damage as they rely on the plaster for protection. The ones without learn to be more careful, usually just getting very small cuts.

    I also teach 4 year old children at Forest School to use hammers and knives. I know this sound scary, but we start them by reading them the riot act before we start, and teach them 1:1. Before they use knives, we start them off with potato peelers on green wood. We do it in an area away from distraction.

    A top tip is keep your knives sharp - they do less damage and the cuts heal faster.

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    re potato peelers we have had far more cuts and grazes cooking when using knives peelers and graters than we get doing axe knife and saw work ?

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