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Thread: Rules cubs sleepover

  1. #16
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    So imagine one night it lashes down, campsite floods but thankfully the local church hall is available at very short notice - with great relief eveyone beds down in said hall for the night - glad of a dry space. Presumably no-one would question anything in this arrangement - its an emergency. (Been there, done that)

    So why is this scenario different from actually planning to sleep in one large hall? Exactly what safeguarding is going to be breached by being able to see everyone at all times. I can quite appreciate not wanting to have to listen to giggling cubs or Akela's snoring all night but where exactly is the risk? The privacy aspect is important and is achieved by ensuring somewhere private to change/wash etc.
    Done the one hall thing a couple of times. Lots of space so no issue. But there is no accounting for restless sleepers. I woke in the middle of the night with someone breathing in my face and an arm across my body. A 17 year old explorer had migrated in her sleep. I had to wake her up to move her. The screams woke everyone...
    Ewan Scott

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  2. #17
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    What Keith said.

    The rules as they are, are less about protection of the young people, and more about protection of TSA.

    Is what I think.

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    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    What Keith said.

    The rules as they are, are less about protection of the young people, and more about protection of TSA.

    Is what I think.
    If you drill down into all the safeguarding literature in Scouting, it's about building a barrier between you and the YP, it's less about child protection than adult protection. The last safeguarding course I went on was full of things you couldn't do, and never focused on the relationships you should safely build with your YP. Without them you cannot spot the early signs that may need intervention on your part. As an example a few years back, one of my cubs started to become a bit quieter than his usual confident self over 2-3 weeks, he would withdraw from some activities, and in one instance lashed out at another cub. I sat him down and because we had built a relationship over the time he was in the pack, I could get to the underlying reason by calmly talking to him and not jumping to assumptions. It turned out his dad had been diagnosed with cancer, and this poor lad was convinced he was going to die ( in reality it was a mild intervention and his dad was fine after treatment) In any case this kid had got himself into such a wound up state he didnt know which way to turn, he didnt want to worry his parents and had been bottling it all up for about 6 weeks. Safeguarding builds distance between you and the YP in your care. As ever in life a good dollop of Common Sense and basic humanity is often the best option.

  4. #19
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Safeguarding is there to protect YP, adults, and TSA. They should be applied with a good dollop of common sense, and not rigidly over-interpreted or used as iron-clad requirements in all circumstances. They should not create an artificial barrier between leaders and YP, but simply to protect everyone; we all know that DBS checks are only valid the minute they're done (and of course, only flag up if someone has been caught...) - the rest of the policies are TSA's attempts to mitigate any situations if someone does get through the checks, and hopefully encourage anyone who is attempting to groom YP that Scouting is not a place where it will be successful.
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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    an arm across my body.
    I know we've always talked about the dead hand of safeguarding, but trust you to go one further and get a whole arm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    A 17 year old explorer had migrated in her sleep. I had to wake her up to move her. The screams woke everyone...
    Yours presumably.

    Funny isn't it? In the end is some gordian knot of different expectations. When we stayed on the Lord Amory the Portuguese female explorers wanted one of their female leaders with them, didn't ever quite cross the language barrier to work out why, just they'd be happier. A fellow leader has camped with Swedish scouts and they would be perplexed if kids didn't stay in their patrols and sleep in the same tent, no matter the gender. While in Spain they gave us three big tents, one for leaders, one for boys, one for girls, then for a couple of nights we were all in, disaster relief style, 300 to a gym floor. Funny old world.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Done the one hall thing a couple of times. Lots of space so no issue. But there is no accounting for restless sleepers. I woke in the middle of the night with someone breathing in my face and an arm across my body. A 17 year old explorer had migrated in her sleep. I had to wake her up to move her. The screams woke everyone...
    Heh!

    During that home hospitality I spoke of in the Dublin scout hall... I was woken up in the middle of the night by one of the kids wriggling and migrating from his sleeping mat on to mine. I got up and moved on to his.

    He was a wee bit confused the following morning.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Sometimes we overcook the safeguarding goose and lose something in the process.

    I am 100% certain that the one that is going to come back and bite you is always going to come back and bite you no matter how careful you are. The rest are just decent human beings.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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  10. #23
    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Safeguarding is there to protect YP, adults, and TSA.
    Yep - its there for all of us.

    It can be genuine protection and never under estimate the damage that can be done by not following them. Yes, common sense is needed, but that's not an excuse for ignoring the rules.

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