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Thread: Trashed Scout Hut

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    Trashed Scout Hut


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    That makes my blood boil!

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    That's just down the road - can't understand what sort of moron would even think to do that
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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    Allegedly they didn't intend to, they tried to pull the door open using a 4x4. If that's the case, that's a building with a serious structural problem if by pulling a wooden door you can cause that to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Allegedly they didn't intend to, they tried to pull the door open using a 4x4. If that's the case, that's a building with a serious structural problem if by pulling a wooden door you can cause that to happen.
    I must admit looking at the photo it looks to me like those are signle skin breezeblock walls which if so will have very little structural strength.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Reading the story it's "mindless vandalism" as nothing was nicked. Can't help wondering if when the wall came down on them, rather than just the door opening, they decided they didnt want to be anywhere near the place and scarpered without nicking whatever they went for.

    Once again though the group appears to be trying to fundraise to cover the costs. Do people just not bother with insurance these days?

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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    Reading the story it's "mindless vandalism" as nothing was nicked. Can't help wondering if when the wall came down on them, rather than just the door opening, they decided they didnt want to be anywhere near the place and scarpered without nicking whatever they went for.

    Once again though the group appears to be trying to fundraise to cover the costs. Do people just not bother with insurance these days?

    I think if you read the report again you will see that the insurance company are visiting to assess things. So they are insured.

    I can tell you however, from experience, that our HQ was destroyed by fire a few years ago and was fully insured for building and contents but we still needed to raise funds to get the place back to how we wanted it (40k). And that was after the 250k insurance and 12k contents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    I think if you read the report again you will see that the insurance company are visiting to assess things. So they are insured.

    I can tell you however, from experience, that our HQ was destroyed by fire a few years ago and was fully insured for building and contents but we still needed to raise funds to get the place back to how we wanted it (40k). And that was after the 250k insurance and 12k contents.
    This happens again and again, that groups are underinsured. I am not saying that you weren't but... I never found another Group that had an inventory of equipment. How can they be properly insured if they have no inventory of equipment? Another issue, and this is an accounting one. We had cause to use professional accountancy services to complete year end accounts. They advised us that our building, registered as an asset of 80,000 ( a like for like valuation) should have been depreciated rather than, as we had done appreciated in value. They revalued our building at 25,000.

    I spoke to our Insurers who said, and I paraphrase, " We calculate that your building would currently cost 88,000 to rebuild, ( more than we had it listed at), and if your accounts showed it as only being worth 25,000, there is a risk that in a total loss situation, that is what the underwriters would authorise. We advise that you increase your valuation to 88,000 and review it annually."

    Now, we paid around 1500 a year in insurance - covering property and inventoried contents. Another Group with a similar property, only paid 450. Their GSL was "the" local go-to man. Both huts were borken into and has similar losses. Our insurer paid out instantly, allowed us to replace equipment, replace damaged doors, and improve security within the figure that they paid out. ( Because we bought replacement kit in bulk we got a huge discount. Rather than claw it back, they allowed us to upgrade our alarm.

    The other Group had to fundraise to repair the damage and replace kit. It took their insurer three years to settle. I think there is a lesson in there somewhere.
    Ewan Scott

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    Regardless of insurance or no, its a shoddy thing to have happen. It seems, even in the 'nicer' areas, you can't trust anyone to keep their hands (and their 4x4's) to themselves.

    What we're bothered with, is low level pauchle. If you leave something out - recently we had half a dozen slabs stolen - it just goes. Suspect people in suspect vans trawl around looking for things they've decided their owners no longer want and have it away. 9 times out of 10, if they just asked... But no, they don't. In a climate where we've had to remove people from our jumble sales for what I can only describe as crap lifting, perhaps its a sign of the time?

    I was going to ask about hall insurance. I did think we were paying over the odds, (about 1700 per year.) But perhaps not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    This happens again and again, that groups are underinsured. I am not saying that you weren't but... I never found another Group that had an inventory of equipment. How can they be properly insured if they have no inventory of equipment? Another issue, and this is an accounting one. We had cause to use professional accountancy services to complete year end accounts. They advised us that our building, registered as an asset of 80,000 ( a like for like valuation) should have been depreciated rather than, as we had done appreciated in value. They revalued our building at 25,000.

    I spoke to our Insurers who said, and I paraphrase, " We calculate that your building would currently cost 88,000 to rebuild, ( more than we had it listed at), and if your accounts showed it as only being worth 25,000, there is a risk that in a total loss situation, that is what the underwriters would authorise. We advise that you increase your valuation to 88,000 and review it annually."

    Now, we paid around 1500 a year in insurance - covering property and inventoried contents. Another Group with a similar property, only paid 450. Their GSL was "the" local go-to man. Both huts were borken into and has similar losses. Our insurer paid out instantly, allowed us to replace equipment, replace damaged doors, and improve security within the figure that they paid out. ( Because we bought replacement kit in bulk we got a huge discount. Rather than claw it back, they allowed us to upgrade our alarm.

    The other Group had to fundraise to repair the damage and replace kit. It took their insurer three years to settle. I think there is a lesson in there somewhere.

    my last group (still sounds weird) paid for a professional valuation that came in at 300k +VAT which was more than double the previous estimate.

    that included clearance of site and rebuild up to modern standards but to a similar spec. More than once, people have suggested that it be downgraded to more like 200k as it seems astronomical but if you google scout hut rebuilds. they never seem to be less than 200k for even a simple build...

    so the group now insures the building for around 400k as building costs have increased.

    The survey cost 200+VAT and was absolutely priceless for peace of mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    my last group (still sounds weird) paid for a professional valuation that came in at 300k +VAT which was more than double the previous estimate.

    that included clearance of site and rebuild up to modern standards but to a similar spec. More than once, people have suggested that it be downgraded to more like 200k as it seems astronomical but if you google scout hut rebuilds. they never seem to be less than 200k for even a simple build...

    so the group now insures the building for around 400k as building costs have increased.

    The survey cost 200+VAT and was absolutely priceless for peace of mind.
    I think your costs look about right - current building regulations make even simple buildings cost more as they are better buildings which should cost less to heat and last longer. Perhaps we need a reminder to get more Group Executives to spend on surveys like yours did.
    A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room. Baden-Powell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    This happens again and again, that groups are underinsured. I am not saying that you weren't but... I never found another Group that had an inventory of equipment. How can they be properly insured if they have no inventory of equipment? Another issue, and this is an accounting one. We had cause to use professional accountancy services to complete year end accounts. They advised us that our building, registered as an asset of 80,000 ( a like for like valuation) should have been depreciated rather than, as we had done appreciated in value. They revalued our building at 25,000.

    I spoke to our Insurers who said, and I paraphrase, " We calculate that your building would currently cost 88,000 to rebuild, ( more than we had it listed at), and if your accounts showed it as only being worth 25,000, there is a risk that in a total loss situation, that is what the underwriters would authorise. We advise that you increase your valuation to 88,000 and review it annually."

    Now, we paid around 1500 a year in insurance - covering property and inventoried contents. Another Group with a similar property, only paid 450. Their GSL was "the" local go-to man. Both huts were borken into and has similar losses. Our insurer paid out instantly, allowed us to replace equipment, replace damaged doors, and improve security within the figure that they paid out. ( Because we bought replacement kit in bulk we got a huge discount. Rather than claw it back, they allowed us to upgrade our alarm.

    The other Group had to fundraise to repair the damage and replace kit. It took their insurer three years to settle. I think there is a lesson in there somewhere.
    We were well insured for the contents but agree that we didn't have a full inventory and a lot of it we were glad to see the back of.

    We did start listing the equipment we lost that we did want replacing along with replacement costs etc and the insurers got a bit odd after about twelve pages and just paid out and told us to deal with it ourselves.

    Part of the issue with the building was that only the toilet area remained 'fit' and as it was therefore not a total rubuild there was VAT to pay that if totally destroyed would not have been to pay.

    We also took the opportunity to 'upgrade' by having pvc windows, the bottom half of the windows bricked, and extension more storage etc.

    So whilst we could have had it rebuilt as it was we chose to enhance the building hence the 40k but I'm sure most groups in this position would want to upgrade it the could at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    We were well insured for the contents but agree that we didn't have a full inventory and a lot of it we were glad to see the back of.

    We did start listing the equipment we lost that we did want replacing along with replacement costs etc and the insurers got a bit odd after about twelve pages and just paid out and told us to deal with it ourselves.

    Part of the issue with the building was that only the toilet area remained 'fit' and as it was therefore not a total rubuild there was VAT to pay that if totally destroyed would not have been to pay.

    We also took the opportunity to 'upgrade' by having pvc windows, the bottom half of the windows bricked, and extension more storage etc.

    So whilst we could have had it rebuilt as it was we chose to enhance the building hence the 40k but I'm sure most groups in this position would want to upgrade it the could at all.

    Ah, I remember this and the saga of the toilet wall...

    There is a difference between rebuilding what you have and improvement. Perhaps those raising funds for projects ought to be clear about what they are doing.
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    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Ah, I remember this and the saga of the toilet wall...

    There is a difference between rebuilding what you have and improvement. Perhaps those raising funds for projects ought to be clear about what they are doing.
    There is also the issue that what you have may not be rebuildable, as Building Regulations might not allow it. If you've got say a 1930s wooden building, you might have a job replacing it for its insurable value.

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    Our old wooden hut was burnt down around 10 years ago, insurance was only 25k. Cost us 125k to rebuild in brick. Always insure for rebuild value, not standing value

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