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Thread: Home hospitality - what happened with you?

  1. #16
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    This is tragic. once again the TSA are playing to the "we must protect at all costs brigade". by doing this they send so many wrong messages to the YP. We embedded the idea that no one is to be trusted, that all foreigners are odd and you must go in pairs. It removes that scary feeling you face when you have to face problems on your own. Just that sort of thing that helps you build confidence and trust in people of the world. and your own abilties.

    Once again I cant help but think that one or two incidents have led the great and good to run scared, and knee jerk.

    We really do seem to be removing all challenge and risk from the programme. This is no way to build robust young people. It is probably the way to build a load of softies, who will end up fearing everyone and everything.

    Makes me quite sad.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    This is tragic. once again the TSA are playing to the "we must protect at all costs brigade". by doing this they send so many wrong messages to the YP. We embedded the idea that no one is to be trusted, that all foreigners are odd and you must go in pairs. It removes that scary feeling you face when you have to face problems on your own. Just that sort of thing that helps you build confidence and trust in people of the world. and your own abilties.

    Once again I cant help but think that one or two incidents have led the great and good to run scared, and knee jerk.

    We really do seem to be removing all challenge and risk from the programme. This is no way to build robust young people. It is probably the way to build a load of softies, who will end up fearing everyone and everything.

    Makes me quite sad.

    Quite so.

    However, we live in a society where we must have someone to blame - and where there is blame there is a claim. Therefore we have to change how we operate to avoid that risk. I hate it, but that is how it works.

    I recently had an incident that resulted in a potential disaster. I was fortunate that there were witnesses and I had the support of young people and parents. However, as a result, I have become more defensive and we have actively put certain young people off joining our group because of the risk that they pose to our young people and to ourselves. In almost 25 years I had, until now, never rejected a membership application nor suspended anyone. I have now done both as the direct result of a real experience, that I believed would never happen to me.

    It makes me sad too, but that's how things have gone.
    Ewan Scott

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  3. #18
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    It's interesting that so many threads start of on one thing but end up here - talking about the extirpation of risk and a generation of softies in the offing.

    For what it's worth, I agree. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground these days - I presume it's down to the blame=claim environment Ewan mentions.

    This is a microcosm of teaching establishments (etc) no-platforming people who's opinions they don't agree with - thus removing any risk of offence. It's the same thing, we (TSA heid-bummers) are just removing any risk of another form of offence, (if you see what I mean) by wringing out any and all circumstances in which a member might feel uncomfortable.

    Thing is, sometimes (just sometimes mind), we need that to be become moderately well-rounded people.

    And home hospitality is a tiny wee thing that can maybe form part of a valuable wider lesson. (Even if the person you hosted didn't bathe for a week.)

    Is what I think.

  4. #19
    Senior Member chubbchubb's Avatar
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    Our Ho ho in Czech Republic after WSJ2011 was a mixed bag. Our unit was split into 3 groups. one patrol went on a camp with a group, another stayed in a scout hut with another patrol from a UK unit and my two patrols stayed at a Scout Hut but were hosted by the group. My group and the one at the campsite had a great time as the hosting groups took u out everyday or did activities, the other patrol didn’t see any Czech scouts and had to entertain themselves. Fortunately they were in a city and had some places to visit but I wouldn’t have said it was a proper hoho experience.

    A few years later I invited my hoho hosts to join our Summer Camp at Gilwell. I split them up into patrols mixed with our scouts and although it started off a bit tense due to the language barrier, once they started doing activities they all got along great, so much so even the boys cried when they left to go home.

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  5. #20
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    It's interesting that so many threads start of on one thing but end up here - talking about the extirpation of risk and a generation of softies in the offing.
    Is that because escouts is populated by increasingly bewildered and embittered scouters, and more and more ex scouters?


    Quote Originally Posted by chubbchubb View Post
    A few years later I invited my hoho hosts to join our Summer Camp at Gilwell. I split them up into patrols mixed with our scouts and although it started off a bit tense due to the language barrier, once they started doing activities they all got along great, so much so even the boys cried when they left to go home.
    Yeah, we did a joint camp when we hosted some Portuguese Exploradoras (or something) for our week's summer camp. Worked like a dream mostly and one of the best camps I've ever been involved with. Yes, we had tears when they left too. Not really HoHo but definitely an experience worth doing/repeating.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Is that because escouts is populated by increasingly bewildered and embittered scouters, and more and more ex scouters?
    Naw man.

    It's because the movement has become more interested in an appeasing business model. Ex-leader here never left scouts, scouts left them.


  8. #22
    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Curiously just after TSA have put these new restrictions in Hoho the Wall Street Journal is reporting that BSA are on the verge of bankruptcy based on the level of sexual abuse claims. BSA have put out a statement that completely fails to deny this.

    I wonder if TSA has looked across the Atlantic thought “there but for the grace of God etc” and had this crack down?

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    Curiously just after TSA have put these new restrictions in Hoho the Wall Street Journal is reporting that BSA are on the verge of bankruptcy based on the level of sexual abuse claims. BSA have put out a statement that completely fails to deny this.

    I wonder if TSA has looked across the Atlantic thought “there but for the grace of God etc” and had this crack down?
    That wouldn't surprise me.

    It's a shame. Because the vast vast majority of leaders do not assault children and the vast vast majority of kids are not attacked.

    The USA has always been far more litigious, but we're going that way too...

    I love a bit of scifi, a bit of near-future fiction. It's interesting to see ways in which society might progress... I don't think I'm hopeful in this area.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post

    The USA has always been far more litigious, but we're going that way too...

    The capacity has always been there but was "landmarked" by the snail in the ginger beer bottle... Donoghue v Stevenson [1932] from which stemmed our modern interpretation of the law of duty of care.

    People in the UK have become more prepared to take legal action than they have elsewhere since no-win no-fee arrangements were developed.

    I find that those who have a care free approach to guidelines and regulations tend to be unaware of how the law will treat them in the event of litigation.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  11. #25
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    As a young person I didn't have any experience of home hospitality - on either the hosting or being hosted side - nor for that matter of attending any international camps. Luckily as an adult (post 25) I've had the opportunity to attend a couple of World Scout Moots as a member of the International Service Team. The first of these was Kenya in 2010 and the later Iceland in 2017. It is the first of these which has allowed me to gain an insight into how staying with people from a different culture can be really beneficial and it is a pity that it is an opportunity that is going to be lost to our under 18 members. It has made me appreciate the things that I have at home more. Whilst not Scouting related my first experience along these lines was as a recent graduate at 21 years old when I spent 6 months voluntary teaching in Kenya at a rural secondary school. For half of that time I lived in a rented house below the school and got rather bored on the evenings as I was there by myself. Half way through we happened to have a staff meeting and one of the teachers asked me to give him 'a push' (walk with him for a bit on his way home). He thought I'd only walk a few 100 metres. I got to the river at which point he decided it was safest if I stayed at his for the night. This meant I got to know his wife and children. They then invited me back over and before long I was living with them for the rest of my time in Kenya. That experience meant that I learnt a lot more about Kenya. I was part of their life and involved in what they got up to day to day. It is also the reason that I've been back so many times since and a large part of the reason I applied to be IST at the 2010 World Scout Moot.

    Based on that experience I've had the opportunity to stay with Kenyan friends who are active within their association. The child of one of them even refers to a room in his house as 'David's room'. Again this direct experience of living with them has taught me a lot more about their culture and helped me to appreciate it. It is also the reason that I can fit so well into Kenyan life as I've grown accustom to how they think and act and can modify my own behaviour accordingly. I feel really appreciative that I've had this opportunity. It has also led to me becoming involved in various Scouting activities whilst in Kenya. The first time I visited one of my friends I just had a day trip to talk to some of his Scouts. Since then I've joined them on camps and the last time I was out there even played an active part in organising the camp and helped them successfully merge some of the ideas that I use in the UK with the requirements that the children needed to complete on that camp. It was a real pleasure. (I happened to be left by my friend with some colleagues who were organising the camp as he had to rush off elsewhere. I was a bit surprised to find out I knew more about the requirements the children needed to complete according to the Kenyan system than they did... It may just be they weren't so used to the Sungura age range.)

    Whilst I enjoyed my time in Iceland, I don't think I appreciate their culture as much as I wasn't fully immersed in it. I don't think that is possible unless you are a core part of it. I'm certainly pleased that I've had the opportunties that I have had both inside and outside of Scouting. (I've also joined the Kenyan Association as a life member.)

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  13. #26
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    I didn't experience Hoho in scouting as a YP but I did go on a 3 week school exchange to Germany- back in the dark ages before CRB's were even heard of... it was fine and I learnt a lot of german ate loads of german food etc. The german girl came back to us and more or less refused to eat for 3 weeks, cried a lot and was rather a pain, but probably did learn some english. My daughter went with another Uk scout to HoHo in Japan- none of the family really spoke English, although dad tried. They had a good time, she got complimented on her use of chopsticks and the scout group organised some things. When the bombings happened in Brussels the father of the family contacted her on Fb to ask if everyone they met was safe (which they were) She also did a mandatory HoHo with her Belgian school to London (to learn about British culture!!) That was pretty poor- the family gave them very little and cheap food, cheapest possible white bread with grated cheese anyone? Luckily they went out during the day with their class and had enough cash to buy food at lunchtime. The scout experience was infinitely better!

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