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Thread: Minibus abroad

  1. #31
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Yes, it does - it quite clearly says: "you must not accept documentation printed from the internet e.g. internet bank statement". Therefore if you know it is one and accept it, you have committed a criminal offence with a possible 4 figure fine, as has a person who submitted it but didn't tell you.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...y-applications

    It's quite possible that PVG is different as it exists under a completely different legal system. But a bit of Googling seems to suggest that it isn't different and you should not be doing this.

    Ho Humm. We use the local Authority to process DBS, and they have gone digital. So, I or one of my team meets the applicant and sees their evidence - this is not recorded or copied - We then give the name and contact details to our secretary, who applies to the Council and we pay the fee. The council DBS service then contact the applicant and go through all the required information, either on line or by telephone...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





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  2. #32
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    just a thought but having been a printer engineer for 39+ years most companies use the internet to print their bills etc anyway often by 3rd parties so how are they more valid than one you have printed your self ? granted there are some who use secure printing methods but proving how they are printed often needs special equipment or knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by deekjcornwell View Post
    just a thought but having been a printer engineer for 39+ years most companies use the internet to print their bills etc anyway often by 3rd parties so how are they more valid than one you have printed your self ? granted there are some who use secure printing methods but proving how they are printed often needs special equipment or knowledge
    Two years ago we remortgaged our house. It was with the same supplier, but we had to go though all the hoops.

    They needed original pay slips. I had only got electronic ones for about ten years. Eventually we settled on a printscreen showing the URL.

    They wanted bank statements. Again everything is electronic. I print them. They refuse them. They wonít accept copies either. I have to explain the only originals are electronic. Eventually they agree that I should ask my bank for paper original copies (???). They arrive. They are just printed from the internet and exactly like the ones I sent in. I send them off with the Hankís (poorly worded) covering letter and fortunately that does the trick.

    It is not easy when the security stuff is still living in a paper world and the public in an electronic one.


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    I would love to see one consolidated form of ID. One that carries your medical info, tax data, driving data, criminal records, etc. - basically any interaction that you have with HM Government all in one place. Attach some biometrics to it and it becomes reasonably difficult to fake.

    Unfortunately I don't particularly trust HM Government to manage a database with accurate data and keep it secure. But I dont object to the principal of a universal ID.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by claire.shadbolt View Post
    Two years ago we remortgaged our house. It was with the same supplier, but we had to go though all the hoops.

    They needed original pay slips. I had only got electronic ones for about ten years. Eventually we settled on a printscreen showing the URL.

    They wanted bank statements. Again everything is electronic. I print them. They refuse them. They wonít accept copies either. I have to explain the only originals are electronic. Eventually they agree that I should ask my bank for paper original copies (???). They arrive. They are just printed from the internet and exactly like the ones I sent in. I send them off with the Hankís (poorly worded) covering letter and fortunately that does the trick.

    It is not easy when the security stuff is still living in a paper world and the public in an electronic one.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I have access to three different bank accounts and the dowloaded statements rom all of them have one important missing piece of data. The name and address of the account holder.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Yes, it does - it quite clearly says: "you must not accept documentation printed from the internet e.g. internet bank statement". Therefore if you know it is one and accept it, you have committed a criminal offence with a possible 4 figure fine, as has a person who submitted it but didn't tell you.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...y-applications



    It's quite possible that PVG is different as it exists under a completely different legal system. But a bit of Googling seems to suggest that it isn't different and you should not be doing this.
    But what difference can it make if they are exactly the same? The rules as written are not fit for the modern age.

    What a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Not acceptable to the DBS.

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    You can, however, just ask the bank to send you a letter, and they will. This isn't a difficult problem to solve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesam3 View Post
    You can, however, just ask the bank to send you a letter, and they will. This isn't a difficult problem to solve.
    A letter is not a bank statement.

    I think some people need to check what is acceptable, it's much narrower than some think.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    The rules as written are not fit for the modern age.
    I do agree, though I think they need to move onto something else e.g. using the likes of credit checks for the check.
    Last edited by Neil Williams; 20-12-2018 at 02:02 PM.

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  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    A letter is not a bank statement.

    I think some people need to check what is acceptable, it's much narrower than some think.
    I mean a letter containing your bank statement, obviously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesam3 View Post
    I mean a letter containing your bank statement, obviously.
    Thing is, in reality it doesn't matter. If you were going to provide fake credentials, what difference would it make? It would be as easy to fake a letter as it would be to fake a statement. I suppose it's how it's all linked together that counts, and what your intention was with the subterfuge anyway...

    Interestingly (or not), one of the idea's behind paperless statements/bills is foiling those pesky identity thieves. They can no longer go through people's bins to get bills or statements.

    Nothing to do with minibuses abroad, but I always remember our SL checking my first PVG application. Even although we'd led together for 20 odd years, he still insisted I show him bank statements and bills. He ID'd his own son. That the system allows that is a bit of a hole. I took my credentials to the district secretary, it just seemed daft showing them to the SL. I'd have had to have been living a lie for 20+ years, possibly longer with overlaps of other mutual friends and leaders...

  14. #41
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    Yes, I don't entirely understand why checking a relative is allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Yes, I don't entirely understand why checking a relative is allowed.
    Because surely if there were any issues with the details of the documents provided, this would be picked up by the DBS themselves? It's not like the relatives are personally performing a records check on their family members, they're just providing the details to allow the DBS to verify their identity.
    James

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonhhjh View Post
    Because surely if there were any issues with the details of the documents provided, this would be picked up by the DBS themselves? It's not like the relatives are personally performing a records check on their family members, they're just providing the details to allow the DBS to verify their identity.
    Can't speak for the DBS checks, this was a PVG check. But the leader (or sec in my case) just ticked a box on the form. She didn't (for example) send any of the docs I provided away with the form.

    I wonder just what cross checks actually happen with DBS/PVG checks? I assume it's all about matching the name to the address for the criminal records check, because as far as I know, that's what any criminal record will be connected to and only that. With the biometric ID card, the aim was to move away from linking records to fixed addresses to the person themselves.

    But, any system can be gamed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonhhjh View Post
    Because surely if there were any issues with the details of the documents provided, this would be picked up by the DBS themselves? It's not like the relatives are personally performing a records check on their family members, they're just providing the details to allow the DBS to verify their identity.
    They are also confirming them to be genuine. Very little information needs to be provided about most document types which means collusion would be easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I have access to three different bank accounts and the dowloaded statements rom all of them have one important missing piece of data. The name and address of the account holder.
    If I download my bank statements as a PDF then they are idenitcal to the ones I would get if they were posted to me inc having my address on them. I assume the bank uses the exact same process to generate the PDF as they do to generate the printed bank statements they post to customers.

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