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Thread: 2019 Census

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Never going to happen. If groups don't know how many kids they have, see Dave123 post on this, the chances of them keeping everything up to date are Zero.

    Just took a look at local Group websites and social media - they can't even update their own publicity... jeez louise, the chances of them keeping accurate anything are about close to zero.
    Then they wouldn't get any money and would fold.

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  2. #92
    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Then they wouldn't get any money and would fold.

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    A good Scouting friend of mine has a rule of thirds

    a third will walk through fire to make X happen
    a third will never make it happen - there will always be a reason
    a third is in the middle. If we want it to happen we have to make it easy. Not fair on those in the top third perhaps (and I guess most of the posters on here are) but vital if we are to get the impact we need & want

    PS Thirds are not necessarily 33% - this is pub psychology and not statistical evidence

    Rich

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    A good Scouting friend of mine has a rule of thirds

    a third will walk through fire to make X happen
    a third will never make it happen - there will always be a reason
    a third is in the middle. If we want it to happen we have to make it easy. Not fair on those in the top third perhaps (and I guess most of the posters on here are) but vital if we are to get the impact we need & want

    PS Thirds are not necessarily 33% - this is pub psychology and not statistical evidence
    It is a lot harder to arrange collection of subs and payment of capitation than it is to enter your bank details, your Group's "cut" and wait for the money to roll in.

  4. #94
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    I think some people are getting confused with the suggested system...

    The suggestion is that all subs payments are done through a system, where each layer logs in sets their fee per young person. This would be the the only method of collecting subs, so would require all levels of scouting to comply. If a group didn't set their levy they wouldn't be getting any income from subs.
    James

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  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    They would log in and edit their Groups Compass record to specify their cut. Not hard at all. Much easier than writing a Census cheque, let alone completing it.

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    I think this is a great idea; except it would require some IT infrastructure that worked properly - and then I think that a level of embezzlement might be preferable.

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  8. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    I think this is a great idea; except it would require some IT infrastructure that worked properly
    I'd suggest, from past experience, that the only way in a million years Gilwell is going to achieve that is through a "lock, stock and barrel" outsourcing to one of the large players. They have time after time proven themselves incapable of managing it themselves.

    and then I think that a level of embezzlement might be preferable.
    Eh?

  9. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Eh?
    The damage done by an IT system that failed to properly collect and distribute subs could be far worse than the present system, where some sections allegedly keep subs they should have handed over to HQ by under declaring numbers.

  10. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    The damage done by an IT system that failed to properly collect and distribute subs could be far worse than the present system, where some sections allegedly keep subs they should have handed over to HQ by under declaring numbers.
    I think "allegedly" is a bit weak here. It's rife, and you and I know it is.

    If nothing else it's unScoutlike. I'd like to see dismissals where it is found to occur, and potentially even reports for criminal charges, as it is the dictionary definition of fraud.

  11. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I think "allegedly" is a bit weak here. It's rife, and you and I know it is.

    If nothing else it's unScoutlike. I'd like to see dismissals where it is found to occur, and potentially even reports for criminal charges, as it is the dictionary definition of fraud.
    I don't disagree with that. Calling a few people out might do the trick.

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  13. #100
    Escouts Founder Richard's Avatar
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    Given the inability of HQ to have YP in Compass, and the total shutdown of the compass for such a long time at one point. I think its a terrible idea.

    Given that fact that Membership fee is just 1 part of all the income a group have, that it can claim gift aid, pay for badges, outings / camps and so on, I dont see how/why we would have a seperate system for Subs, and say OSM for camps etc

    My group pays all its money due for its members, those that are underpaying should be challenged and made to discover the error of their ways, I don't think it helps anyone to band the words Criminal Charges and Fraud around.
    We all volunteer, someone who undereports should have discussions with their DC and supported / dealt with appropriately.

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  15. #101
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    Currently, there isn't a system for subs - at least not a widespread system which is being used. (We have OSM, but we don't have it set up for subs yet.)

    A key point of the system I described is, that it isn't a membership system, it's a payment system - with only one product being sold. In terms of data, it would be tiny and simple compared to what they tried to do with Compass.

    For preference, it wouldn't be TSA who'd develop it - hopefully they would learn from previous experience... A quick google search finds a lot of off-the-shelf products that could be made to work.

    From the POV of the census and from the POV of whoever is managing subs at group level (assuming you're not using OSM - which is a membership system, I wonder what the up-take is for parents and the my.scout section of OSM...) I think my idea ticks all the boxes, if anyone pinches it, I'll be cross.


  16. #102
    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    census data has a habit of cropping up as part of projects, a lot round growth and development, but also in other areas. It has only taken HQ 5 years to recognise the importance of the postcode field on census as well as that will only open up how the data is used. It would be good to have mini-cenuses throughout the year for better data and also would allow a prediction for a main census, and this culture of under-reporting may be easily spotted.

    Rule 66. A map and compass offers no protection against getting horribly lost.

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  18. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    census data has a habit of cropping up as part of projects, a lot round growth and development, but also in other areas. It has only taken HQ 5 years to recognise the importance of the postcode field on census as well as that will only open up how the data is used. It would be good to have mini-cenuses throughout the year
    No, it wouldn't. I have enough admin to do as it is.

    A proper membership system would solve this, of course.

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  20. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    It would be good to have mini-cenuses throughout the year for better data and also would allow a prediction for a main census, and this culture of under-reporting may be easily spotted.
    We have to report headline figures [not all the religon/ ethnicity/disability nonsense that seems to take all the time] to a regional census and county census which are suitably staggered to mean were effectively supplying figures each school term.

    Works well as means there is more accurate development and growth figures available throughout the year and its less of a "snapshot" approach.
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  21. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    No, it wouldn't. I have enough admin to do as it is.

    A proper membership system would solve this, of course.
    Indeed.

    We sometimes struggle with admin, but even we manage to keep OSM up to date in terms of membership.

    Maybe District Secretaries could be given read only access... Mmm, no, that's a heck of a lot of log in details to remember...

    :-/

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