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Thread: Air rifle/pistol activity lead.

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    Air rifle/pistol activity lead.

    Yowsers.

    Just emailed SHQ about what I'd need to run an air rifle/pistol activity on a Scout camp.

    It looks as if the rules in Scotland are the same as the rest of the UK. I'd need a 'certificate' (which I assume is for a Range Conducting Officer) from the National Small Bore Rifle Association. Then, I think it goes on to say I'd need to inform Police Scotland if I'm doing it, which seems a bit daft.


    https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...cat=26,407,351

    Further consideration needs to be given to Rule 9.37(k) - https://members.scouts.org.uk/por9.37

    Are the links they sent. But one of those links, to do with offering shooting 'in scouting' - so not using an outside organisation says in section 3 - check if a permit is required says; no permit is required. (Here - https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...unMethod=scout)

    I've always had air rifles and pistols. I've ran it with scout before (a while ago). I appreciate though, (looking at it from the parents POV), that some validation wouldn't go amiss.

    Given that the NSRA is a UK-wide thing - has anyone been through the process? I'm not interested in having a new all-consuming hobby, I'd just like to be able to offer shooting on a camp.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Yowsers.

    Just emailed SHQ about what I'd need to run an air rifle/pistol activity on a Scout camp.

    It looks as if the rules in Scotland are the same as the rest of the UK. I'd need a 'certificate' (which I assume is for a Range Conducting Officer) from the National Small Bore Rifle Association. Then, I think it goes on to say I'd need to inform Police Scotland if I'm doing it, which seems a bit daft.


    https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...cat=26,407,351

    Further consideration needs to be given to Rule 9.37(k) - https://members.scouts.org.uk/por9.37

    Are the links they sent. But one of those links, to do with offering shooting 'in scouting' - so not using an outside organisation says in section 3 - check if a permit is required says; no permit is required. (Here - https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...unMethod=scout)

    I've always had air rifles and pistols. I've ran it with scout before (a while ago). I appreciate though, (looking at it from the parents POV), that some validation wouldn't go amiss.

    Given that the NSRA is a UK-wide thing - has anyone been through the process? I'm not interested in having a new all-consuming hobby, I'd just like to be able to offer shooting on a camp.

    There are two options (at least).

    1/ The Range Officer - which gives you the basics and focusses on range safety. ( locally offered in a 3hr course)

    2/ The NSRA Tutor - which is a 16 hour course.

    We did the Tutor course. Our DC at the time did the RO course run for Scouts by an NSRA coach.

    The difference - one teaches safety, and very little else. The other teaches safety plus how to shoot, how to teach people to shoot and how to make adjustments to sighting etc. Does it matter - depends.

    We were running a shooting session and the DC and her hubby came along, they had both done the RQ training. After a while she asked, "where did you learn all the stuff about sighting, making adjustments, dominant eye, blinder etc.?" She then added, "Wow, we have just done the course run by WY Scouts and we never got any of that training. We wouldn't know where to start with improving their shooting..."

    Mileage may vary...
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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Yowsers.

    Just emailed SHQ about what I'd need to run an air rifle/pistol activity on a Scout camp.

    It looks as if the rules in Scotland are the same as the rest of the UK. I'd need a 'certificate' (which I assume is for a Range Conducting Officer) from the National Small Bore Rifle Association. Then, I think it goes on to say I'd need to inform Police Scotland if I'm doing it, which seems a bit daft.


    https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...cat=26,407,351

    Further consideration needs to be given to Rule 9.37(k) - https://members.scouts.org.uk/por9.37

    Are the links they sent. But one of those links, to do with offering shooting 'in scouting' - so not using an outside organisation says in section 3 - check if a permit is required says; no permit is required. (Here - https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...unMethod=scout)

    I've always had air rifles and pistols. I've ran it with scout before (a while ago). I appreciate though, (looking at it from the parents POV), that some validation wouldn't go amiss.

    Given that the NSRA is a UK-wide thing - has anyone been through the process? I'm not interested in having a new all-consuming hobby, I'd just like to be able to offer shooting on a camp.
    The NSRA course for this is a weekend and is pretty easy, lots of common sense safety and a bit of how to train, how to maintain

    Down south, they are run regularly at scout campsites. This is the course: http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/home...t=WyJ5cHMiXQ==

    It allows you to run the range and also to run their course.

    their are lots of recognised qualifications: https://members.scouts.org.uk/su

    and i have known the scouts shooting people approve someone without these qualifications if they have an equivalent level of skill (this was a police firearms instructor)

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    Mmm...

    I'm not a police firearms officer - although sometimes at scouts... Looking at what I can see of the course content (I'm at work and the NSRA website is blocked), I think I already have enough knowledge - however - in this area (as with first aid etc), actually having the qualification would be preferable.

    Thanks for the info. What I don't (or can't really do) is travel down south (say) to do the course, for what it is (and what I'd actually learnt that I didn't already know), it's just to much to ask. When I get home, I'll see if anything is being offered locally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    There are two options (at least).

    1/ The Range Officer - which gives you the basics and focusses on range safety. ( locally offered in a 3hr course)

    2/ The NSRA Tutor - which is a 16 hour course.

    We did the Tutor course. Our DC at the time did the RO course run for Scouts by an NSRA coach.

    The difference - one teaches safety, and very little else. The other teaches safety plus how to shoot, how to teach people to shoot and how to make adjustments to sighting etc. Does it matter - depends.
    I think it would be interesting to do the tutor course. We spent a day with a rifle and gun club, it was fascinating. (Although I don't want to join a rifle and gun club...)

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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    A confusion often made within shooting is the requirement for a 'permit'. My understanding is that shooting does not count as an adventurous activity, so is not covered by the permit scheme and therefore not only does it not need a 'permit' but you can't get one for shooting. However, you do need a relevent qualification, as listed in POR, for which most people in my experience get the NSRA YP air rifle qualification, which is a two day course (although it is possible to do a one day refresher if you have a lapsed qualification). This qualification is then often wrongly described as a permit (including by DCs).

    Thinks: it is often said that shooting should be within the permit scheme, or similar, because there currently isn't a formal process to find somebody near you who has a shooting qualification.
    Last edited by Kev; 11-01-2019 at 10:25 AM.

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    Apparently, according to the NRA website, in order for me to do even an RSO course (which I'd need before doing the RCO course), I need to be a member of a Home Office approved club?

    BASC.org.uk have no courses in Scotland at all... Cumbria is the closest...

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Apparently, according to the NRA website, in order for me to do even an RSO course (which I'd need before doing the RCO course), I need to be a member of a Home Office approved club?

    BASC.org.uk have no courses in Scotland at all... Cumbria is the closest...


    I think there may be some confusion.

    The NSRA Tutor course is aimed at the use of air rifles that fall outside the licensing requirement in England. (Your mileage on that will/ does vary). The NRA courses will cover live ammunition, which is a different ball game altogether.

    Just had a look at the Police Scotland pages on this - wow, somewhat draconian compared to the free-for all we have in England.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Just had a look at the Police Scotland pages on this - wow, somewhat draconian compared to the free-for all we have in England.
    Dunblane I guess. Or making sure the Scots can't rise up and rebel against their English oppressors again.
    Ian Wilkins
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    I'm already licenced to own air rifles and pistols on line with the law here. But, since there's no Scottish equivalent of the nra that does training (that I can find), I'll need to do whatever it is in the English system.

    I think... I'm not sure to be honest. There is a rifle club locally, I've sent them a message.

    Annoyingly, the title of this thread means I can no longer access it on my computer at work, now having to reply with my phone, for which my fingers are far too sausagey.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Dunblane I guess. Or making sure the Scots can't rise up and rebel against their English oppressors again.
    No, this is much more recent. I think in response to a couple of incidents, at least one involving the death of a toddler.

    The history of firearms licensing in the UK is quite interesting, and has generally been about minimising the original English laws on the Right to Bear Arms, which was taken up by the Americans. The difference between the USA and the UK is that we have moved on and they have not. At one time Protestants were allowed to carry firearms, but Catholics were not...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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    Indeed.

    Andrew Morton, 2 years old shot in the head and killed.

    Although, all it means is you have pay 70 for a licence, you don't need to stipulate what you own or register anything with the police. It's really just a way of stopping new air guns entering into circulation. I'd still need to figure out what I'd need to do with regard to scouts.


    *Edit* That sounded quite short, I was typing on my phone. What I meant to say was, the death of any kid is an absolute tragedy, what it meant though, was that in order for someone to lawfully buy or own an air rifle or pistol, they now need to be background checked by the police. Along with the law coming into force, there was also an amnesty. However, I don't imagine the kind of people who'd behave irresponsibly with an air gun are the type of people who'd heed laws that are easy to avoid. It wouldn't for example have stopped Mark Bonini shooting Andrew Morton dead.
    Last edited by pa_broon74; 12-01-2019 at 12:36 PM.

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    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    I run it in Scotland and you need what you need for England and an AWC, turn around for those is fairly quick.

    None of the sites in Scotland run air rifles because of the need for an AWC and also have found Dunblane has made people wary (have had that as a reason not to do air rifle shooting said to me)

    Best bet would be wait for SHQ to get back to you and speak to NSRA and if you have a local club speak to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    I run it in Scotland and you need what you need for England and an AWC, turn around for those is fairly quick.

    None of the sites in Scotland run air rifles because of the need for an AWC and also have found Dunblane has made people wary (have had that as a reason not to do air rifle shooting said to me)

    Best bet would be wait for SHQ to get back to you and speak to NSRA and if you have a local club speak to them.
    Thanks for this.

    SHQ sent me a load of links to stuff on the UK scout website. I already have an AWC and been in touch with a local club.

    People can be very skittish when it comes to any sort of firearms related stuff. Personally, since that particular genie is out the bottle, it's better to educate than to ignore. I also think it's a pretty good vehicle for teaching discipline - there's nothing like real risk as a motivation.

    We took Explorers to a gun club up north, it was an interesting day, it's a hell of a thing to fire full bore guns never mind have them fired at you. I only had to get consent for two who were still under 18, which the parents give willingly. It was probably one of the best activities we've done...

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