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Thread: WSJ IST - Trying not to be cynical.

  1. #16
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    I've written before about the Scouts who've been to WSJ in Sweden and Japan who were very unimpressed, in one case seriously trying to get some of his hard earned money back (for Sweden 6 of the 11 we sent said they rather not have gone, and a couple very much more enjoyed their troop camps to K'steg more).

    So, I'm not a fan of WSJ at all.
    The old man sat at the side of the road between Seatown and Hilltown, a traveller from Hilltown came along and asked him "Good fellow! What are the people of Seatown like? I'd like to know before I travel there!" the old man replied "Tell me first sir, what are the people like in Hilltown?" "Oh, friendly, happy folk mostly", the old man replied "well, the people of Seatown are much the same".
    Later that day, a traveller from Seatown came along the road and met with the old man, and asked him "You! What are the people of Hilltown like? I've left Seatown for good I reckon, a miserable miserly bunch they are. So tell me, what are they like in Hilltown?" the old man replied "well, the people of Hilltown are much the same."
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Whereas one of our Explorers (at the time) went to Sweden and absolutely loved the experience especially the Home Hospitality and I think he is still in touch with some of the people he met there and one of our current AESLs went to Japan and evidently really enjoyed it and says he would have loved to have gone to USA as IST.

    I do agree the cost is high for both participants and IST but I certainly think its a worthwhile expereince so long as participants understand what they are and are not going to get out of it (meeting Scouts from across the world not necessarily big ticket adventurous activities)
    Oh don't get me wrong, the other 5 loved it - or said they did. But I'm not sure I'd want to take a 50% chance that I'd hate it for the amount of effort. Sweden was different I think, being particularly focussed on the environment and spirituality. It didn't help that our county team had set expectations very high for activities and events, expectations which weren't met. Japan seemed slightly better but again the comments about queuing in extreme heat and activities and events not matching pre-trip "sales talk".

    I particularly dislike the pressure on the returning participants. The amount of time and effort required to send them, and supporting from groups, district, family and friends means that they absolutely "have to have loved it" or let all those people down. I met a Korean jamboree participant at our group centenary some 15 years after the event and only then did he admit it was amongst the worst three weeks he'd experienced before or since, particularly the Hoho bit (which was different in those days), but after the event he'd had to tell everyone how brilliant it was.

    Having said that Hoho seems to be better enjoyed. But then as troop a while back we did a swap with a troop in Denver where for the first week we all stayed with local families and camped for the second. It was great and lifelong friendships made. But didn't cost as much as a third of the Jamboree at the time.
    Last edited by RisingStar; 08-02-2019 at 09:59 AM.

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Having said that Hoho seems to be better enjoyed. But then as troop a while back we did a swap with a troop in Denver where for the first week we all stayed with local families
    Well that's all been stopped now, as we can't be sure them foreign types aren't "dodgy".
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Well that's all been stopped now, as we can't be sure them foreign types aren't "dodgy".
    I didn't realise that... I mean, I knew from the daily papers and all the Britian First posts on FB that these foreign types were dodgy... but I didn't realise that hoho had been taken off the package.
    Ewan Scott

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I didn't realise that... I mean, I knew from the daily papers and all the Britian First posts on FB that these foreign types were dodgy... but I didn't realise that hoho had been taken off the package.
    Only if you're a proper scout.

    They've changed them pesky rules so you can only have what they call "group" hospitality when going abroad. I.e. you all camp together.

    POR 9.64.f if you're really bored.

    Groups visiting the UK can still do HoHo (POR 9.65.e), because good solid British people with good solid British values are fine*

    * Subject to DBS clearance.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Only if you're a proper scout.
    You mean like the guys around me ... In that case I'm not a proper scout

    They've changed them pesky rules so you can only have what they call "group" hospitality when going abroad. I.e. you all camp together.

    POR 9.64.f if you're really bored.

    Groups visiting the UK can still do HoHo (POR 9.65.e), because good solid British people with good solid British values are fine*

    * Subject to DBS clearance.
    Interesting development. So, essentially, if Johnny Onion, or Paulo Pizza come here they can have Hoho.... if their Association trusts good old British honesty and decency... I suspect that Hoho in the UK is going to die a death.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    My young adult daughter is on IST but her luggage didn't get there. Does anybody know who to contact to help sort it out?

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    My young adult daughter is on IST but her luggage didn't get there. Does anybody know who to contact to help sort it out?
    UK Contingent team at a guess. Could ask the info centre for a clue.
    Ian Wilkins
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    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    UK Contingent team at a guess. Could ask the info centre for a clue.
    Thanks but I was looking for an indivudual rather than an info centre slog. If you email the IST at the address given on the web site you get an auto reply saying it won't be accessed after December 2015!

  12. #25
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    My young adult daughter is on IST but her luggage didn't get there. Does anybody know who to contact to help sort it out?
    Surely there's a local contact she could speak to?
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  13. #26
    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Surely there's a local contact she could speak to?
    I would presume so but they don't appear to be obvious.

  14. #27
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    My young adult daughter is on IST but her luggage didn't get there. Does anybody know who to contact to help sort it out?
    The airline she travelled with, they have the responsibility to reunite her with her luggage ASAP. In the mean time would suggest she explains the situation to whoever is leading her IST team and hopefully something can be sorted out temporarily until her luggage arrives.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    The airline she travelled with, they have the responsibility to reunite her with her luggage ASAP. In the mean time would suggest she explains the situation to whoever is leading her IST team and hopefully something can be sorted out temporarily until her luggage arrives.
    Hey guys, I was just looking for a friendly face to help her out, some sort of insider knowledge.
    Last edited by Kev; 19-07-2019 at 10:17 AM.

  16. #29
    Yes, I've got the T-shirt Sparkgap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Okay, this is going to be fuel to the fire for some of you I know, I almost hesitate to post this, it'll be scratching a scab.

    Got an email about them reopening IST positions for both WSJ and EuroJam

    Both require you to take nearly two weeks off work

    WSJ
    - you get UK contingent kit. Tent to kip in. Food. Local transfers.
    - they want you to pay 1500, or 1800 if you go to the UK contingent bash in Washington afterwards.
    - Flights to and from, I had a brief play with a cheap flights site, and you're looking at 900-1000

    EuroJam
    - you get food. Local transfers. I guess this means you get to take your own tent.
    - okay, obviously, it's cheaper to get to Gdansk, Google says it's an 18 hour drive so you could road trip it, or there'll be cheap flights with your Irish fella, or similar. Maybe 200.
    - Cost is....255

    Now, I know, WSJ will be an extraordinary thing, 165 countries, massive event, having been to a little one, I can see the appeal for sure. But..that 1500 (or 1800) seems....a lot. And I know the USA and Poland are very different but...255 v 1500 different? And I know WSJ is all UK contingent this and branded goods that and a couple of UK contingent weekends, while EuroJam is a bit more...see you there don't forget your necker!

    It certainly means only a certain section of the population can even think about WSJ IST. Can I say Gap-year types without being pejorative? Probably not. I mean, as it goes, I probably could scrape the pennies, dip into savings, but I don't think I've got enough leave left from work plus family holiday. EuroJam is a bit more tempting right enough though.

    So, things have got cheaper? When I had to fundraise for WSJ in 1979 it was 600-ish, equivalent to about 3000 now.
    As for time off work, depends on your employer: my previous (local govt) one had a policy of granting extra leave for such things as scout/cadet/TA camps so you didn't use all yours up. Others might be flexible allowing you to take unpaid leave or make up time later. Depends how well you get on with your boss I suppose
    Andy
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  17. #30
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    Hey guys, I was just looking for a friendly face to help her out, some sort of insider knowledge.
    Sorry, seem to only know unit leaders this time round, and they're not leaving until tomorrow.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
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