Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 122

Thread: Chasing unpaid subs

  1. #46
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    15,672
    Thanks
    425
    Thanked 2,949 Times in 1,603 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    And to be abundantly clear (since trust it seems, is scarce), subs is never redirected. Firstly, it's rarely if ever cash and secondly, that would be fraud - or at the very least, using cash not for the purpose for which it was intended.

    Here's a scenario - what would you do.

    You're booking QuazarLazer, you know you need to book because it's busy and you need to know you'll get your slot. Do you collect payment well in advance, get it banked, then get a receipt. Or, ask the kids to bring payment on the night and give it directly to you, thus reimbursing your initial outlay?

    Constraints around this might be to do with timing, maybe it's easier for kids to bring cash on the night (we all know the things that can crop up in getting payment in), also, some of us just aren't that organised in advance.

    I pay the deposit. The kids bring cash on the night. The group pays by cheque, and the cash gets banked.

    NEVER pay for anything out of cash received without it going through the bank - that's my way. That method means that your Bank statements match youyr accounts, to the penny. No questions, no issues.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bushfella For This Useful Post:

    BalooNav (08-05-2019),hippysurfer (08-05-2019),Neil Williams (08-05-2019)

  3. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    East Anglia
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 31 Times in 21 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Here's the thing. I'm trying to be nuanced about it, and maybe every one else is too and I'm missing it. But my take is thus. If you're in a scout group where no one knows anyone else, or if no one knew anyone else until they started in the group - then fair enough. Equally, if you're just standing in the street and you ask a random stranger to go and pay for something on your behalf - gave them £20 and just trusted them to do it...

    But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm assuming a base level of trust among a group of people who do know each other already.
    I understand where you are coming from on this, but it does preclude new leaders coming on board if they are not already within the trust group. That may be acceptable at the moment, but it does seem like an unnecessary restriction to recruitment because instead of requiring somebody to pass a conversation with the head honcho (e.g. GSL), DBS and appointments process, they also need to be “known” to be trustworthy. What if an existing leader from elsewhere moves into the village?

  4. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    East Devon
    Posts
    1,189
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 419 Times in 218 Posts
    We have no problem with delayed reimbursement, we have a Cub Pack bank account. Somebody brings a receipt for an expense to one meeting, it is reimbursed at the next.

    Most subs are paid by BACS into the Cub account. The Group Treasurer is one of the signatories and has on-line access to view the account so can keep an eye on what is going on. The funds allocated to us by the Group Exec is 50% of subs, so we transfer 50% of subs we receive to the Group account. Job done.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    15,672
    Thanks
    425
    Thanked 2,949 Times in 1,603 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I'm assuming a base level of trust among a group of people who do know each other already.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm also not explicitly talking about not doing any of the things Dave points out.

    What I'm saying is, if someone was engaged in fraud in our group (for example), it would be found out pretty quickly, because there is a fair bit of oversight. Multiple leaders are included in all the processes, and many of those leaders (and office bearers) are also parents - and we (they) know (and knew) each other outside of Scouts.

    So under those circumstances, where is the trust? I mean, why are they even called trustees, why not just call them potential fraudsters and just cut out the chitchat?

    If it's not an outlier, does anyone have any figures or stats about the number of cases of fraud versus the number of transaction that go off with out any problems and are done completely honestly and above board? I don't have any to hand, but I bet if I did - they'd puts that story as an outlier.

    Also, in my view, not following the rules as set out (ably) by Dave, does not necessarily mean a person is engaged in fraud. I can almost hear people squealing in dismay as I read that back - but it doesn't. It means they're not following the rules (if it came to it, it would be negligence), it doesn't mean they're engaged in theft. I think we need to be careful about the language we use in this area.

    Meanwhile, I've just bankrolled half of a weekend away. Although, that's to do with my bank being arsholey, not any rules around fraud.


    Trust can be and is abused. Especially if temptation is put on the table.

    The big issue here is that when we talk of Trustees, many are " just helping out with Scout club" - From many, many discussion here and elsehwere, I'd warrant few have read POR and virtually none have a clue about Charity Rules and what being a trustee entails. I've seen Trustees resign when they have been informed of their responsibilities!

    The stats will be hard to come by, because it is not generally something that we brag about. It is usually dealt with by training and a slapped wrist, or a resignation required. Few cases go to the Police. Fewer still gain any national publicity. Is fraud an issue in charities? I think that the Charities Commission would say "absolutely". They are combatting it by greater scrutiny of those who qualify, but most Scout groups don't, even those who are registered will not attract their attention.

    Some years back we had been a bit trusting of a treasurer, because we had seen a succession of treasurers the bakn acounts came to my address. I never paid much attention (my bad), until we got a letter about overdraft charges. I knew how much money we had handed to the treasurer and had a ballpark idea of the four figure sum that should be in the account. It turned out that he had not banked it. The cash was sitting on his dining room table, he told us.

    The Exec demanded to see the accounts and he handed over a hand written journal that he had inherited from previous treaurers, past records were neat and legible and followed entry by entry. His records were shambolic, items double entered then removed. We could not make head nor tail of them. It took us two years to get the accounts back to where they should be. To be clear, in this case there had been no fraud, ultimately the finances worked out, after having the accounts rewritten for two years!

    At the time, I called the Charity Commission and sought their guidance and explained that our return would be late. The call was noted by the CC, and was brought up when we eventually lodged our returns. However, I was told that if there was fraud involved, A/ the amount was going to be minor compared to the larger cases they were more interested in, and as we were a small charity it would probably take them about five to six years to even ask the question! So, as to the quantity of fraud in charity, I suspect it is higher than we know - and that was before they started chasing money laundering and false fronts for terrorist organisations...

    In our case the issue was perhaps negiligence or similar. However, in the other case where the leaders were sacked, the amount was fairly substantial. There was a couple of decades back, a County that had been investigated by the Charity Commission and they allegedly found a shortfall of £90,000. There followed a dictat that all monies in and out MUST be receipted (which would create a nightmare for any group collecting subs on a weekly basis!). The failing had been put down to a failure to record incomings and outgoings - we were told. Cash creates issues.

    I regularly bank roll some events and claim back afterwards. I even did this when unemployed - as long as the credit card gets paid on time, it isnt an issue. Scouts were always quicker to pay expenses than my employers...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Bushfella For This Useful Post:

    hippysurfer (09-05-2019)

  7. #50
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,620
    Thanks
    1,530
    Thanked 2,158 Times in 1,260 Posts
    d. Each Section and Group Scout Active Support Unit must keep a proper cash account which must be produced, together with supporting vouchers and the cash balance, to the Group Treasurer at least once in each period of three months.

    Question: is the meaning of "cash account" a specific accounting term in here? Or does this allow you to have an account for cash? i.e. Smiffy gives you £35 for the terms subs, you write in your cash account book "1/5/19 | Subs - Smiffy | +£35.00 | £128.24", then another time you go and buy two portions of chips with cash and get a receipt and write in your little book "8/5/19 | Chippie | -£4.00 | £124.24".

    I.e. you must keep a proper account of cash?

    That follows a. Each Section or Group Scout Active Support Unit must itself administer sums allocated to it by the Group Executive Committee.
    So the exec could allocate your section, say, an £100 cash float that you need to administer.
    But that seems countermanded by
    b. Subscriptions paid by or on behalf of Members of each Sections or Group Scout Active Support Unit members must be handed to the Group Treasurer or their nominee as soon as possible after receipt.
    c. The Group Treasurer should make the necessary records and pay the money into the Group bank account(s) as soon as practicable.


    So maybe if you operate with a cash float, and get subs in cash, you need to account for it, so if you have a cash account, it's more like
    1/5/19 | Subs - Smiffy | +£35.00 | £128.24
    2/5/19 | Subs to treasurer | -£35.00 | £93.24
    8/5/19 | Chippie | -£4.00 | £89.24

    Is one acceptable and the other not? Both not? Both fine?

    I like the modern world, where I download the bank transactions into wave apps, categorise it all, and that's job done, it's more difficult to make it not add up to what the bank says, and a real reflection of your money state, give or take the annoying people that don't pay in their cheques.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  8. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,275
    Thanks
    1,522
    Thanked 1,177 Times in 855 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by garethhowell View Post
    I understand where you are coming from on this, but it does preclude new leaders coming on board if they are not already within the trust group. That may be acceptable at the moment, but it does seem like an unnecessary restriction to recruitment because instead of requiring somebody to pass a conversation with the head honcho (e.g. GSL), DBS and appointments process, they also need to be “known” to be trustworthy. What if an existing leader from elsewhere moves into the village?
    Disagree.

    It doesn't work like that, at least not where we are. If there's any outgoings, they are mine at the moment. We've just taken on a batch of new leaders in the Scout section - they don't buy anything - at least not yet. I've said if they need to, then get a receipt. They don't deal with any cash from the kids for activities. I rarely deal with cash fro activities (it happens maybe twice or three times a year), so they're even less likely to be doing it.

    This is the thing about Scouts, how it's changed. And I get it, some groups will need to work the way you describe - but for others, where they are still a moderately close-knit community endeavour and new leaders are parents anyway (because that's how we role these days).

    So no. It doesn't preclude new leaders coming in. I know this because I just recruited three into the scout section. Section leaders are different, but as I said, they're 99% parents anyway who are known to the group. That's our group, I appreciate others will be different, but it's what works for us. I don't assume every other group will be that way, but nor do assume they aren't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    d. Each Section and Group Scout Active Support Unit must keep a proper cash account which must be produced, together with supporting vouchers and the cash balance, to the Group Treasurer at least once in each period of three months.

    Question: is the meaning of "cash account" a specific accounting term in here? Or does this allow you to have an account for cash? i.e. Smiffy gives you £35 for the terms subs, you write in your cash account book "1/5/19 | Subs - Smiffy | +£35.00 | £128.24", then another time you go and buy two portions of chips with cash and get a receipt and write in your little book "8/5/19 | Chippie | -£4.00 | £124.24".

    I.e. you must keep a proper account of cash?
    We're not that complicated. Sections don't have accounts or petty cash. If they (we) need something, they (we) buy it and get a receipt. The only time cash is a thing is during the benighted jumble sale where there's all sorts of sums flying around for about a week, and if a section is doing an activity that requires payment in advance and the kids bring money on the night.

  9. #52
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    12,418
    Thanks
    3,584
    Thanked 1,196 Times in 793 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    d. Each Section and Group Scout Active Support Unit must keep a proper cash account which must be produced, together with supporting vouchers and the cash balance, to the Group Treasurer at least once in each period of three months.

    Question: is the meaning of "cash account" a specific accounting term in here? Or does this allow you to have an account for cash? i.e. Smiffy gives you £35 for the terms subs, you write in your cash account book "1/5/19 | Subs - Smiffy | +£35.00 | £128.24", then another time you go and buy two portions of chips with cash and get a receipt and write in your little book "8/5/19 | Chippie | -£4.00 | £124.24".

    I.e. you must keep a proper account of cash?

    That follows a. Each Section or Group Scout Active Support Unit must itself administer sums allocated to it by the Group Executive Committee.
    So the exec could allocate your section, say, an £100 cash float that you need to administer.
    But that seems countermanded by
    b. Subscriptions paid by or on behalf of Members of each Sections or Group Scout Active Support Unit members must be handed to the Group Treasurer or their nominee as soon as possible after receipt.
    c. The Group Treasurer should make the necessary records and pay the money into the Group bank account(s) as soon as practicable.


    So maybe if you operate with a cash float, and get subs in cash, you need to account for it, so if you have a cash account, it's more like
    1/5/19 | Subs - Smiffy | +£35.00 | £128.24
    2/5/19 | Subs to treasurer | -£35.00 | £93.24
    8/5/19 | Chippie | -£4.00 | £89.24

    Is one acceptable and the other not? Both not? Both fine?

    I like the modern world, where I download the bank transactions into wave apps, categorise it all, and that's job done, it's more difficult to make it not add up to what the bank says, and a real reflection of your money state, give or take the annoying people that don't pay in their cheques.
    I think that what the rules are getting at is that all cash received should be paid into a Group Bank Account as then its clear how much has been recieved in cash. It is then fine for the Exec to authorise cash to be paid back out to Leaders in order to pay to run activtiies so long as proper receords of how much cash and what it was spent on are kept (cash accounts). The issue this is trying to prevent is with recieving cash and it just disappearing with no one else knowing that it was received in the first place. If a Leader did this for just one of the Scouts in their section for 5 years then they will have kept hundreds of pounds of Scout money

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to shiftypete For This Useful Post:

    Bushfella (08-05-2019)

  11. #53
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,275
    Thanks
    1,522
    Thanked 1,177 Times in 855 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Snip
    I still think the ratio between groups that are above board, versus groups that are actually engaged in fraud is very wide indeed. But I would posit the notion that there are many in the middle who 'make things work' but are not necessarily following the rules.

    That to me is not fraud or negligence, it's pragmatism.


  12. #54
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    15,672
    Thanks
    425
    Thanked 2,949 Times in 1,603 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I still think the ratio between groups that are above board, versus groups that are actually engaged in fraud is very wide indeed. But I would posit the notion that there are many in the middle who 'make things work' but are not necessarily following the rules.

    That to me is not fraud or negligence, it's pragmatism.


    There is pragmatism and there is pragmatism.

    It is not difficult to follow the rules. You take money in. You pay it into the bank account. You have expenses, you get paid back when showing receipts (If no receipt is available a self receipt may be acceptable) . There is no need to be "pragmatic", it is simple, just about anyone can do it.

    When we started Navigators, we had absolutely zero funding. No money coming in, nothing to bank, no expenses. When we committed, we had a big bill to pay on day one. Insurance. We had a base membership, we set our fees, and we rolled the dice. I paid the Insurance and the initial rent on the hall we use. The subs came in, they were banked (we had already established the bank account). I got my expenditure back. No need to play with cash. Any cash comes in, it gets banked, simple as that. Expenses get paid when claimed, that has always been the case. There is no need for pragmatism in handling funds.

    A pragmatic solution is needed when you cannot play by the rules. For example, taking funds for a camp or an International. These, in our case, still come out of the Group bank account - but made payable to an individual, but with Exec approval and fully accountable.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  13. #55
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,620
    Thanks
    1,530
    Thanked 2,158 Times in 1,260 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    I think that what the rules are getting at is that all cash received should be paid into a Group Bank Account as then its clear how much has been recieved in cash. It is then fine for the Exec to authorise cash to be paid back out to Leaders in order to pay to run activtiies so long as proper receords of how much cash and what it was spent on are kept (cash accounts). The issue this is trying to prevent is with recieving cash and it just disappearing with no one else knowing that it was received in the first place. If a Leader did this for just one of the Scouts in their section for 5 years then they will have kept hundreds of pounds of Scout money
    But it doesn't prevent cash just disappearing anyway. Smiffy hands over £35 and it never makes it to the treasurer to go in the bank account, or Smiffy hands over £35 and it never being written in the cash book is the same fraud. Or 20 cubs pay £5 for ten pin bowling on the night but the treasurer only receives £80 and the leader said 16 cubs went. I guess going down the cashless or at least never handling cash a-la Big Chris is the safest route.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  14. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,275
    Thanks
    1,522
    Thanked 1,177 Times in 855 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    There is pragmatism and there is pragmatism.

    It is not difficult to follow the rules. You take money in. You pay it into the bank account. You have expenses, you get paid back when showing receipts (If no receipt is available a self receipt may be acceptable) . There is no need to be "pragmatic", it is simple, just about anyone can do it.

    When we started Navigators, we had absolutely zero funding. No money coming in, nothing to bank, no expenses. When we committed, we had a big bill to pay on day one. Insurance. We had a base membership, we set our fees, and we rolled the dice. I paid the Insurance and the initial rent on the hall we use. The subs came in, they were banked (we had already established the bank account). I got my expenditure back. No need to play with cash. Any cash comes in, it gets banked, simple as that. Expenses get paid when claimed, that has always been the case. There is no need for pragmatism in handling funds.

    A pragmatic solution is needed when you cannot play by the rules. For example, taking funds for a camp or an International. These, in our case, still come out of the Group bank account - but made payable to an individual, but with Exec approval and fully accountable.
    I think you're falling into the Perfect World Vortex. We don't all operate under the same circumstances - sometimes for reasons I can't guess, because they are entirely unforeseeable - and for reasons that are entirely subjective - one needs to be pragmatic.

    If I need to buy something, I get a receipt. Waiting as along as I have to is a pain, but it's a known quantity. If I think we might do something but it requires an outlay that I know I'm not going to get back for a couple of weeks (not unusual), then the kids don't get to do it.

    However, if they're going to Quazer Lazer or the trampoline park - that needs paid in full at the time of booking. I stick that on a card, ask the kids to bring cash (frown at any parent who tries to send their kid with a cheque), and collect cash from kids as they arrive. Only downside to that is, if not all the kids I book for turn up then I end up out of pocket. That's rare though, because those nights are well attended.

    Personally, I'm fed up being perpetually out of pocket these days. The group - basically - is always due me money, and it's a pain in the ****.

    For clarity. I'm not talking about subs, or about camp fees. I'm talking about one-off activities that otherwise, kids would be paying for as the entered. If we went to the swimming pool for example, they'd just pay themselves in - I don't need to be bothered about that.

  15. #57
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    12,209
    Thanks
    1,839
    Thanked 3,329 Times in 1,433 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think you're falling into the Perfect World Vortex. We don't all operate under the same circumstances - sometimes for reasons I can't guess, because they are entirely unforeseeable - and for reasons that are entirely subjective - one needs to be pragmatic.

    If I need to buy something, I get a receipt. Waiting as along as I have to is a pain, but it's a known quantity. If I think we might do something but it requires an outlay that I know I'm not going to get back for a couple of weeks (not unusual), then the kids don't get to do it.

    However, if they're going to Quazer Lazer or the trampoline park - that needs paid in full at the time of booking. I stick that on a card, ask the kids to bring cash (frown at any parent who tries to send their kid with a cheque), and collect cash from kids as they arrive. Only downside to that is, if not all the kids I book for turn up then I end up out of pocket. That's rare though, because those nights are well attended.

    Personally, I'm fed up being perpetually out of pocket these days. The group - basically - is always due me money, and it's a pain in the ****.

    For clarity. I'm not talking about subs, or about camp fees. I'm talking about one-off activities that otherwise, kids would be paying for as the entered. If we went to the swimming pool for example, they'd just pay themselves in - I don't need to be bothered about that.
    or you ask for the money in advance from the group.

    that is what i did for years. Even for small amounts. There were times when 20 quid near the end of the month was not possible from my account do i would ask for £25 from the treasurer to my account. do the shop and then leave the change and receipts in her drawer.

    that worked just fine and was not perfect world.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to big chris For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (08-05-2019)

  17. #58
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    12,418
    Thanks
    3,584
    Thanked 1,196 Times in 793 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    But it doesn't prevent cash just disappearing anyway. Smiffy hands over £35 and it never makes it to the treasurer to go in the bank account, or Smiffy hands over £35 and it never being written in the cash book is the same fraud. Or 20 cubs pay £5 for ten pin bowling on the night but the treasurer only receives £80 and the leader said 16 cubs went. I guess going down the cashless or at least never handling cash a-la Big Chris is the safest route.
    Yes but its much easier to track as the Leader can't just say oh I spent that on x didn't I or whatever. i.e. the Treasurer knows how much money should be being received in total for subs and if a Section has a shortfall in Subs income the the Treasurer can investigate why

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  18. #59
    Senior Member BalooNav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    S Glos.
    Posts
    681
    Thanks
    243
    Thanked 91 Times in 58 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    ...However, if they're going to Quazer Lazer or the trampoline park - that needs paid in full at the time of booking. I stick that on a card, ask the kids to bring cash (frown at any parent who tries to send their kid with a cheque), and collect cash from kids as they arrive. Only downside to that is, if not all the kids I book for turn up then I end up out of pocket. That's rare though, because those nights are well attended.

    Personally, I'm fed up being perpetually out of pocket these days. The group - basically - is always due me money, and it's a pain in the ****.

    For clarity. I'm not talking about subs, or about camp fees. I'm talking about one-off activities that otherwise, kids would be paying for as the entered. If we went to the swimming pool for example, they'd just pay themselves in - I don't need to be bothered about that.
    In your Quazer scenario, are you saying you keep the cash handed in by the kids as you paid the venue on the booking, or does it go to treasurer and then you claim back for the initial booking outlay?

    Personally I'd avoid doing the former, and put it all through the accounts. I bl00dy hated handling cash, always a risk of something going wrong, or perceived as going so no matter how careful. How does this event show in your financial records? Is your treasurer and GSL happy with the arrangement, they really shouldn't be? If the group are too tardy in paying expenses, it would be sensible to look to remedy that in order to avoid the need for such activities.

    J

  19. #60
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    15,672
    Thanks
    425
    Thanked 2,949 Times in 1,603 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think you're falling into the Perfect World Vortex. We don't all operate under the same circumstances - sometimes for reasons I can't guess, because they are entirely unforeseeable - and for reasons that are entirely subjective - one needs to be pragmatic.

    If I need to buy something, I get a receipt. Waiting as along as I have to is a pain, but it's a known quantity. If I think we might do something but it requires an outlay that I know I'm not going to get back for a couple of weeks (not unusual), then the kids don't get to do it.

    However, if they're going to Quazer Lazer or the trampoline park - that needs paid in full at the time of booking. I stick that on a card, ask the kids to bring cash (frown at any parent who tries to send their kid with a cheque), and collect cash from kids as they arrive. Only downside to that is, if not all the kids I book for turn up then I end up out of pocket. That's rare though, because those nights are well attended.

    Personally, I'm fed up being perpetually out of pocket these days. The group - basically - is always due me money, and it's a pain in the ****.

    For clarity. I'm not talking about subs, or about camp fees. I'm talking about one-off activities that otherwise, kids would be paying for as the entered. If we went to the swimming pool for example, they'd just pay themselves in - I don't need to be bothered about that.

    In group finances, it is not rocket science to operate a simple system that meets proper practices. The simple fact that people don't do so is what creates the issues in the first place.

    It seems to me that if you are having to wait for reimbirsement, and I know this happens, then you need an Exec that is a bit closer. I suspect that some groups have "remote" treasurers, but if two of the leaders are signatories and budgets are agreed then there should be no delays. We have always operated on a reimbursment on demand basis. If someone needs reimbursed today, they get paid today. But most people will accrue a couple of weeks and claim it all back at once.

    I read of groups where people wait months for expenses. That is not acceptable. I get berated by some for having 10 Exec meetings per year. But it means that in a worst case scenario the longest anyone waits in a month. Most are paid when the claim is received. I used to have to wait months for District expenses, but they were minimal and i never bothered about it that much, but as a rule, people should get reimbursed as soon as possible.

    If laserquest wanted paying in full in advance I would not be booking. The only bookings I have ever made that needed paying in advance in full have been hostels used on international trips, IYHA take a deposit, but the main residence always ask for full payment - but I will not pay in full in advance for an activity where some may not turn up.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-02-2018, 02:21 PM
  2. Chasing end of term subs
    By derekchambers in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 24-07-2017, 09:54 PM
  3. Subs
    By SwayWolf in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 15-04-2015, 08:56 AM
  4. Subs chasing
    By Tazmania in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 28-03-2012, 05:00 PM
  5. Subs
    By notgonehome in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 05-09-2009, 06:07 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •