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Thread: Is there no shortage of Leaders?

  1. #31
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    What Pete said, total honesty and full disclosure. Perhaps, if your old DC has a rep, they'll know of it.

    Although, if it were me, it would be Scouting's loss. I wouldn't go back to it.

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    You would hope that the appointments committee would/should be aware of any personal differences between you and the other DC, and if it comes to it, give you a fair chance to put things across if required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    I am intrigued, as far as I am aware you get to nominate who your referees are not the appointments committee. Obviously there is nothing to stop them contacting the DC directly regardless.

    I think I would be tempted to say you do not want your former DC as a referee and explain that you feel you were previously forced out of Scouting by said DC simply because you expressed an interest in taking on a CSL role. Better to get your side of the story in first IMHO.
    For someone who has previously been in Scouting and who left or was dismissed then it is quite normal to ask the previous DC for a reference or at least more information. It is one sided but if the applicant gets an interview they can put their views too. After all if there is no criminal record all they have to go on is the cancellation report by the previous District. I'm not sure that a new District gets to see that though so if the role was closed 'unsatisfactory' the new District want to know why to help them decide whether it was just a clash of personalities or whether there were deeper issues that need investigation.

    After all if you need to provide references and they are from friends, they are not likely to give a picture other than near perfect.

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  7. #34
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    In a way, it's a positive sign that they are asking you before speaking to said DC, rather than doing it in the background and giving you no chance for rebuttal.

    I agree with others, full disclosure as to why you would rather the DC not be used as a ref, but don't outright refuse. That way you look reasonable and sensible, and they can speak to him on that basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    In a way, it's a positive sign that they are asking you before speaking to said DC, rather than doing it in the background and giving you no chance for rebuttal.

    I agree with others, full disclosure as to why you would rather the DC not be used as a ref, but don't outright refuse. That way you look reasonable and sensible, and they can speak to him on that basis.
    If I were on the AAC a request not to talk to anyone would have me scuttling to the email immediately. The AAC must properly consider every bit of evidence available to them, positive or negative, they would be failing in their duty if they didn't talk to the previous DC especially if having been directed to them. It mustn't be an exercise of bringing anyone in as we need the leaders. I think our AAC has twice in 5 years rejected someone, both for very good reasons and in each case after much reserach and heart searching.

    I think the OP's rather presumptious views on "having my own pack" by September would be very off putting to me on the AAC or in the group.

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  10. #36
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    To be fair that "presumption" appears to be based on the knowledge that the current leader is planning to leave in the summer (that much was expressed above) and possible knowledge (not expressed) that there is no-one within the group able to take their place. Whether enthusiasm for having freedom to run things your own way is a good or bad thing probably depends on your particular view and maybe the particular person expressing that enthusiasm. Someone that is fed up with being held back by outdated policies (no girls etc) would be fine expressing that view - someone who wants to do things the way they should always have been done might be more of a worry!
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post

    I think the OP's rather presumptious views on "having my own pack" by September would be very off putting to me on the AAC or in the group.
    Not sure why this would be off putting? I see people coming through all the time where their first role is a Section Leader or above. Unless the nature of previous roles any unsatisfactorily presented a considerable risk someone wanting a fresh start in a new role in scouting after having a tough time before would be an unusually positive outcome!
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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    To be fair that "presumption" appears to be based on the knowledge that the current leader is planning to leave in the summer (that much was expressed above) and possible knowledge (not expressed) that there is no-one within the group able to take their place. Whether enthusiasm for having freedom to run things your own way is a good or bad thing probably depends on your particular view and maybe the particular person expressing that enthusiasm. Someone that is fed up with being held back by outdated policies (no girls etc) would be fine expressing that view - someone who wants to do things the way they should always have been done might be more of a worry!
    I've always been singled out for running a progressive pack, cub forums decided the program. the cubs didnt like grand howl so it was dropped from my pack (took some explaining to the GSL but she came round) I was doing Youth Shaped before it was even thought of by TSA using sixer and seconder forums 4 times a year and 2 pack forums to shape the program, camps and trips. Sixers would run games at the end of the session. I initiated getting the explorers to do a stint as a young leader in the younger sessions. ran cub of the month, six of the month competitions. We also used to camp 5-6 times a year and go on 3-4 trips out, must have been doing something right as average numbers in my pack were 32 and got 90% plus turnout for St Georges and Remembrance Sunday events. To be honest i think this might be part of the problem, I've kept looking for a cub pack that was as vibrant, dynamic and fun as mine was and keep coming up short. The first pack I joined the CSL used to scream at the kids so loud it made me cringe, the program consisted of 6 solid weeks of knot practice, tying bits of string onto bamboo canes, they didnt camp at all, and it was frankly as flat as lead balloon. Maybe what I'm looking for what doesn't exist.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    ................. To be honest i think this might be part of the problem, I've kept looking for a cub pack that was as vibrant, dynamic and fun as mine was and keep coming up short.......................
    I think you may be right - not all cub leaders can make such extravagant claims to be so progressive for a whole range of reasons and I think you may be expecting them all to be cast from the same mold. Perhaps it would help if you lowered a little your expectations of the fellow leaders with whom you hope to serve!
    Peter

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  14. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    I've always been singled out for running a progressive pack, cub forums decided the program. the cubs didnt like grand howl so it was dropped from my pack (took some explaining to the GSL but she came round) I was doing Youth Shaped before it was even thought of by TSA using sixer and seconder forums 4 times a year and 2 pack forums to shape the program, camps and trips. Sixers would run games at the end of the session. I initiated getting the explorers to do a stint as a young leader in the younger sessions. ran cub of the month, six of the month competitions. We also used to camp 5-6 times a year and go on 3-4 trips out, must have been doing something right as average numbers in my pack were 32 and got 90% plus turnout for St Georges and Remembrance Sunday events. To be honest i think this might be part of the problem, I've kept looking for a cub pack that was as vibrant, dynamic and fun as mine was and keep coming up short. The first pack I joined the CSL used to scream at the kids so loud it made me cringe, the program consisted of 6 solid weeks of knot practice, tying bits of string onto bamboo canes, they didnt camp at all, and it was frankly as flat as lead balloon. Maybe what I'm looking for what doesn't exist.
    Perhaps lower your expectations? Not all groups/sections are as amazing as you seem to think you were - try just working on helping other leaders develop their packs first?
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    I think the OP's rather presumptious views on "having my own pack" by September would be very off putting to me on the AAC or in the group.
    Heh! Who's being more presumptuous here? The OP who ran his own pack before, and seemed to have done it quite well - or you, who just wrote the OP off because you felt he was being presumptuous.

    I get it though. I moved away from Scouts up to Explorers way back when, I just couldn't fit in with how Scouts was running at that time - it was equal parts awkward and frustrating.

  17. #42
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    I've kept looking for a cub pack that was as vibrant, dynamic and fun as mine was and keep coming up short. The first pack I joined the CSL used to scream at the kids so loud it made me cringe, the program consisted of 6 solid weeks of knot practice, tying bits of string onto bamboo canes, they didnt camp at all, and it was frankly as flat as lead balloon. Maybe what I'm looking for what doesn't exist.
    Keep your expectations low, start off with seeing it as a glorified youth club, then every bit of progress you/ the pack makes is an acheivement.
    If the pack did 6 weeks of knot tying, and you want to add something to it after the umpteenth reef knot/granny knot, clove hitch, round turn etc, and the pack isnt camping, then offer to organise a day trip to a campsite where they can put the knot tying to use raft building/pioneering etc.
    A day trip to a campiste is significantly easier and simpler to organise than a full camp, and if the pack isnt camping/hasnt camped, or there are some who have not camped before it will give them a taste of what they can do ( including adults!) , if that could be progressed to a one night sleepover / camp after a days activity then that would be a major step forward

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    Keep your expectations low, start off with seeing it as a glorified youth club, then every bit of progress you/ the pack makes is an acheivement.
    If the pack did 6 weeks of knot tying, and you want to add something to it after the umpteenth reef knot/granny knot, clove hitch, round turn etc, and the pack isnt camping, then offer to organise a day trip to a campsite where they can put the knot tying to use raft building/pioneering etc.
    A day trip to a campiste is significantly easier and simpler to organise than a full camp, and if the pack isnt camping/hasnt camped, or there are some who have not camped before it will give them a taste of what they can do ( including adults!) , if that could be progressed to a one night sleepover / camp after a days activity then that would be a major step forward
    Do you think I never tried! I've found all these CSLs so set in their ways that its like banging your head against a brick wall. I quite expect to lower my expectations and to temper my enthusiasm, but when they are just going through the motions and are not open to new ideas it starts to become painfully hard work and frankly boring to turn up every week and go home disappointed. I used to relish the nights that the Akela didn't turn up to, as the other Leaders wouldn't have a clue what to do , and it gave me an opportunity to pull one of my programs of my phone and inject some badly needed fun into the program. It's not that the leader couldn't camp they all had Nights Away it;s that they wouldn't camp, full stop. I offered to organise, plan, cost and run a weekend away and they weren't interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Heh! Who's being more presumptuous here? The OP who ran his own pack before, and seemed to have done it quite well - or you, who just wrote the OP off because you felt he was being presumptuous.

    I get it though. I moved away from Scouts up to Explorers way back when, I just couldn't fit in with how Scouts was running at that time - it was equal parts awkward and frustrating.
    I'm trying to be objective actually. If I were presented with gods gift to Cub Leading, but who left the movement for some reason, to work with a different (competitng?) movement which then fell apart, and has some background with previous group and DC then I'd want to know the full background to all of that before appointing, and yes I 'd want to hear both sides of that story.

    I referred to our ACC having only very occasionally rejected a candidate. One of those was the perfect leader - no family, plenty of time, lots of experience but in his time with his previous group and as a helper with the group he was trying to join, had thoroughly upset almost everyone with whom he had come in contact with his arrogance and unwillingness to accept alternative views and demands of commitment from his team which they couldn't meet. The group he was trying to join breathed a sigh of relief.

    I wish the OP the best and hope he gets his role, but fully understand that the AAC want to make sure that works to the benefit of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    ....................from his team ..........................

    Throughout this thread I’ve been struck by the absence of the word “team”.

    I think we have a fairly good programme – we try to be outside or away from the hut as much as possible and (probably achieve this on about 40% of Pack meetings), all Cubs have ample opportunity to complete their Chief Scout’s Silver Award and we aim to do one “extra” activity a month including 6/8 Nights Away each year.

    BUT this is only possible because all the section leaders and SAs work together as a TEAM. It certainly isn’t down to me just because it’s my name on the website. We know each other’s strengths, weaknesses, likes and dislikes and the differing time commitments that each member of the team is able to give and we work TOGETHER in a way that suits us to deliver the best Scouting experience that we can for our Cubs.
    Kate, CSL (and GDB(S))
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    www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

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