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Thread: Is there no shortage of Leaders?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    ... to work with a different (competing?) movement which then fell apart...
    The group was community based and lost its facilities, for various reasons. I am told that it will be back in operation once premises have been found.

    The prime mover in that Group is very dedicated to his community and I believe that he will get things back on track.

    The one thing that people eschewing the establishment of TSA ( or other associations) is that there is no public perception of what they do, and building continuity is much harder than it would be with a, say, TSA Group.

    I do agree with the rest of your comment. I have already stated in the past that an approach to me would result in some deep questioning and some reservations. Indeed, I would fully expect, given my openness here, that if I were to approach a Group to rejoin TSA, that approach would be met with a mixture of suspicion, reservation and downright resistance.
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    The group was community based and lost its facilities, for various reasons. I am told that it will be back in operation once premises have been found.

    The prime mover in that Group is very dedicated to his community and I believe that he will get things back on track.

    The one thing that people eschewing the establishment of TSA ( or other associations) is that there is no public perception of what they do, and building continuity is much harder than it would be with a, say, TSA Group.

    I do agree with the rest of your comment. I have already stated in the past that an approach to me would result in some deep questioning and some reservations. Indeed, I would fully expect, given my openness here, that if I were to approach a Group to rejoin TSA, that approach would be met with a mixture of suspicion, reservation and downright resistance.
    Useful background thanks. But... maybe the OP would be better helping to get the group back in action than rejoining Scouts if so frustrated by TSA...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Useful background thanks. But... maybe the OP would be better helping to get the group back in action than rejoining Scouts if so frustrated by TSA...
    But then again wasn't the alternative group in Milton Keynes, some 30 miles away from Thame (if bernwood's location is correct)? A quick look on the TSA website shows 3 groups in Buckinghamshire within 5 miles so that may be a factor.
    James

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonhhjh View Post
    But then again wasn't the alternative group in Milton Keynes, some 30 miles away from Thame (if bernwood's location is correct)? A quick look on the TSA website shows 3 groups in Buckinghamshire within 5 miles so that may be a factor.
    Ah but, if I am not mistaken that area may well be a part of one of the oxford districts from which bernwood's sorry tale originates (see post #7 above), so that has, I suspect, rather put the kibosh on him joining any of those groups!
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Ah but, if I am not mistaken that area may well be a part of one of the oxford districts from which bernwood's sorry tale originates (see post #7 above), so that has, I suspect, rather put the kibosh on him joining any of those groups!
    Exactly, which is why I was only talking about the Buckinghamshire groups, not Oxfordshire
    James

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    I'm trying to be objective actually. If I were presented with gods gift to Cub Leading, but who left the movement for some reason, to work with a different (competitng?) movement which then fell apart, and has some background with previous group and DC then I'd want to know the full background to all of that before appointing, and yes I 'd want to hear both sides of that story.

    I referred to our ACC having only very occasionally rejected a candidate. One of those was the perfect leader - no family, plenty of time, lots of experience but in his time with his previous group and as a helper with the group he was trying to join, had thoroughly upset almost everyone with whom he had come in contact with his arrogance and unwillingness to accept alternative views and demands of commitment from his team which they couldn't meet. The group he was trying to join breathed a sigh of relief.

    I wish the OP the best and hope he gets his role, but fully understand that the AAC want to make sure that works to the benefit of all.
    You hadn't been presented with god's gift to cub leading, you didn't know one way or the other - you read the comments and found it 'off-putting' that he was looking forward to getting his own pack again. That's not being objective, that's forming preconceptions before you've got all the info.

    Of course you'd want to know as much as possible about the candidate, and hear from all sides. But one example of a 'perfect leader' who turned out to be a nightmare does not set a hard precedent for others with no family, plenty of time and lots of experience etc etc etc.

    Even using the term 'god's gift to cub leading' is somewhat pejorative. It seems to me, (while not being fully aware of the ins and outs Bernwood's situation), that it may well be this quickness to judge which caused him all the bother in the first place.

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonhhjh View Post
    Exactly, which is why I was only talking about the Buckinghamshire groups, not Oxfordshire
    Oops my bad, I forgot that the county border was that close!
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.ť Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Useful background thanks. But... maybe the OP would be better helping to get the group back in action than rejoining Scouts if so frustrated by TSA...
    Agree with this though. Once bitten, twice shy... Or as a great man once fumbled: fool me once, shame on you... Fool me, ummm, twice shame on... Ummm. It's important to not get fooled again...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Beaver View Post
    Throughout this thread I’ve been struck by the absence of the word “team”.

    I think we have a fairly good programme – we try to be outside or away from the hut as much as possible and (probably achieve this on about 40% of Pack meetings), all Cubs have ample opportunity to complete their Chief Scout’s Silver Award and we aim to do one “extra” activity a month including 6/8 Nights Away each year.

    BUT this is only possible because all the section leaders and SAs work together as a TEAM. It certainly isn’t down to me just because it’s my name on the website. We know each other’s strengths, weaknesses, likes and dislikes and the differing time commitments that each member of the team is able to give and we work TOGETHER in a way that suits us to deliver the best Scouting experience that we can for our Cubs.
    Also agree with this, which is why existing leaders may be hesitant about taking new leaders on. Also agree with RS on this too, the AAC or DC might think a person would be good, but if he or she doesn't fit with the existing team...

    (But they should always get a response to any communications, even if it is a polite refusal... )

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    You hadn't been presented with god's gift to cub leading, you didn't know one way or the other - you read the comments and found it 'off-putting' that he was looking forward to getting his own pack again. That's not being objective, that's forming preconceptions before you've got all the info.

    Of course you'd want to know as much as possible about the candidate, and hear from all sides. But one example of a 'perfect leader' who turned out to be a nightmare does not set a hard precedent for others with no family, plenty of time and lots of experience etc etc etc.

    Even using the term 'god's gift to cub leading' is somewhat pejorative. It seems to me, (while not being fully aware of the ins and outs Bernwood's situation), that it may well be this quickness to judge which caused him all the bother in the first place.
    I'm not saying anything about the OP at all. I don't know him or have met. All I'm saying is that an AAC must consider all facts available to it, otherwise it is completely pointless and delinquent in its responsibility. Whatever impressions I've got from his posts are irrelevant to the important people in this issue - the OP and the AAC and those who know him.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    I'm not saying anything about the OP at all. I don't know him or have met. All I'm saying is that an AAC must consider all facts available to it, otherwise it is completely pointless and delinquent in its responsibility. Whatever impressions I've got from his posts are irrelevant to the important people in this issue - the OP and the AAC and those who know him.
    But they do raise issues, just as they would do in applying for a job. Employers often do searches to see what someone posts...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    But they do raise issues, just as they would do in applying for a job. Employers often do searches to see what someone posts...
    Ahhh I'm somewhat hopeful that eScouts is reasonably anonymous

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    We need a new Scout Leader but we need someone who can work in the team. They have to be able to work with the Cub Leader and Beaver Leader and help with Group activities. We have a few assistants who are willing but all have jobs which can take them away from the UK or mean they have to stay late for a meeting. We are looking and will shortly be telling our parents that we need a new "team" to take over with the support of the current assistants.
    If "super SL" arrived ready to run their troop then it would all depend on their attitude as to whether any of the current assistants and other section leaders would want to work with them. I do not know Bernwood, the people he has worked with or any of the history but his post come over as arrogant and alarm bells would be ringing for me as one of the people he would be taking over to run "his" pack.

    I hope I am totally wrong and that he/she is genuine about wanting to work with other leaders to deliver brilliant Scouting.
    John Alexander,
    ASL and Assistant Webmaster
    1st Weald Brook
    http://www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk
    ESL(YL) Brentwood District

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    I think we're falling back into the forum chat trap with this. How people come across can be very subjective, and to write folk off as arrogant (or anything else) off the back of comments on a forum, to me, is unfair and unwise.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Ahhh I'm somewhat hopeful that eScouts is reasonably anonymous
    Only to a point.

    I know who you are and so too do a lot of other people. Word gets around.

    I once posted an entiely innocent comment about wiping kids noses for them. The CC, who is not, and never was, on Escouts, contacted me because a complaint had been made to Safeguarding - It was one of a series of complaints made by a coward who either lied about his identity, or who hid his identity. I was not the only poster he reported and some of the posters he reported did not reveal their identity, but the complainant knew who they were.

    Using tracking software I located the two ISP that he used, I have a very good idea who it was, unfortunately, I did not have the wherewithall to identify his actual address, but he knows I know and things went quiet after I let him know how close I was.

    There are limits to anonymity.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Only to a point.

    I know who you are and so too do a lot of other people. Word gets around.

    I once posted an entiely innocent comment about wiping kids noses for them. The CC, who is not, and never was, on Escouts, contacted me because a complaint had been made to Safeguarding - It was one of a series of complaints made by a coward who either lied about his identity, or who hid his identity. I was not the only poster he reported and some of the posters he reported did not reveal their identity, but the complainant knew who they were.

    Using tracking software I located the two ISP that he used, I have a very good idea who it was, unfortunately, I did not have the wherewithall to identify his actual address, but he knows I know and things went quiet after I let him know how close I was.

    There are limits to anonymity.
    I too seem to remember this and think the same person had a go at me for something I said.

    I never got to the bottom of who it was, but they were either at or had a good insight into a County Meeting I was at so could narrow it down if they were there.

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