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Thread: Is there no shortage of Leaders?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    I too seem to remember this and think the same person had a go at me for something I said.

    I never got to the bottom of who it was, but they were either at or had a good insight into a County Meeting I was at so could narrow it down if they were there.
    I'm not going to name the individual I spoke to because I cannot prove my theory, but after I told him in conversation how I had tracked the email source to two local servers, the complaints stopped. Coincidence? Maybe...

    I am not always a bull in a china shop
    Ewan Scott

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    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I'm not going to name the individual I spoke to because I cannot prove my theory, but after I told him in conversation how I had tracked the email source to two local servers, the complaints stopped. Coincidence? Maybe...

    I am not always a bull in a china shop
    No, I think you were probably right. Either that or they know who it was and told them to stop as they were getting the blame.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post

    There are limits to anonymity.
    I agree. Never believe that you are anonymous on the Internet, unless you really know what you are doing.

    I can get from my username on eScouts to my real scout role in one search on Google.

  4. #64
    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    I'm back in Vetting from last Monday, what are the odds of getting out alive and intact?

  5. #65
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    I'm back in Vetting from last Monday, what are the odds of getting out alive and intact?
    A quiet word of advice.

    Stop posting on this subject.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  7. #66
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    I'm back in Vetting from last Monday, what are the odds of getting out alive and intact?
    Listen to Ewan

    A long time ago, in a District Far Far away I was in your position. However good a Leader you think you are the Scout Association is always bigger and stronger than the individual and generally would rather miss out on what you can bring to young people's lives than accept a leader who rocks the boat. If you want to be a leader and believe you have something to offer the young people (and from what's been posted I would suggest you have) then try humility, toe the line and remember most of us do it for the YP. If you are accepted and get given a Pack to run then in a year or so's time your actions will have vindicated you rather than forum posts. Good luck.
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    A quiet word of advice.

    Stop posting on this subject.
    Bernwood, I was using Facebook on this morning and on my news feed appeared a post under the heading "a recent post from one of your groups you may be interested in". I have never (to my knowledge) conversed with that person on Facebook and as far as I can remember have never posted in that group, either.

    The post was made by a person who lives in Thame, Oxfordshire and was looking for groups in Buckinghamshire. Sound familiar?

    From that person's profile I was able to find out an awful lot of information about them and their spouse (work history, education, holiday destinations, names (including maiden), photos and interests) even though I am not their "friend" and have no mutual friends with them either.

    As I type, this thread has 65 replies but 3580 views.

    I'm no betting man but would feel fairly confident in betting a hefty amount that I'm not the only person who would put 2+2 together. Imagine if one of those 3580 had an axe to grind or a bee in their bonnet about something.

    Employers aren't the only institutions known to look people up online, especially people going through any kind of vetting/approval process.

    Listen to Ewan. And sort your Facebook privacy settings out.
    James

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  11. #68
    nele
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    A number of our leaders came to us after a break in Scouting (often due to the move abroad). We are usually very happy to get someone with experience, whether in UK or other scout associations. Many have stayed, a few have found themselves too busy or whatever.. whether because genuinely too busy or they felt they didn't fit I really couldn't say. I haven't personally had experience of anyone coming in who we felt wouldn't be OK somewhere in the team, although its safe to say there are 'characters' everywhere.

    Anyone moving to Brussels please get in touch!!

    Leader's previous UK training and roles are available on Compass, but any break requires a new DBS etc. However if First aid was still up to date it should be a simple matter to re-validate that for the new role. It can also be shown as prior training so you only need to re-validate not retrain, depending on the gap and your TA's opinion. Sometimes its wise to redo modules as things change.

    Tip: if you are moving away from your current area and plan to join a new group as soon as you're settled, ask your old group to keep open the role for a couple of months- it makes things smoother

    I have never asked a person's previous DC for a reference- but some people have given an ex team member/GSL as one of their referees.

    In Bernwoods case I'd suggest he give the DC's contact details, explains he never actually met the man and there were problems, give someone else he knows eg GSL or other leader/exec member from his ex group as a second opinion.

    I think other's advice to stop posting conflicts here or on Fbook is spot on.

    If Gilwell have been told someone is unsatisfactory I imagine they ask for details.. and these can then be discussed before appointing someone elsewhere.

  12. #69
    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Just been turned down after local vetting inquiries - By god that DC has some influence

  13. #70
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Basically you have been blackballed in Scouting and its unlikely you will ever find out exactly why or get yourself off the blacklist I am afraid.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  14. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    Just been turned down after local vetting inquiries - By god that DC has some influence
    Well you can put in a subject access data request to HQ. Then you'll see what information is held on you. This is exactly how a suspended leader I know found out about the complaint made against him.

    If it's inaccurate then others here may be able to advise. I'm not sure what your rights are to correct it.

    At the end of the day the association does not have to let you join provided there's no illegal discriminatory rules applied. Personally I'd recognise when it's worth walking away and finding somewhere else to apply your energy.

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  16. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Well you can put in a subject access data request to HQ. Then you'll see what information is held on you. This is exactly how a suspended leader I know found out about the complaint made against him.

    If it's inaccurate then others here may be able to advise. I'm not sure what your rights are to correct it.

    At the end of the day the association does not have to let you join provided there's no illegal discriminatory rules applied. Personally I'd recognise when it's worth walking away and finding somewhere else to apply your energy.
    Regarding rights on correcting inaccurate data, the Gilwell GDPR pages themselves say:

    Unless subject to an exemption under the GDPR and DPA 2018, a data subject has the following rights with respect to their personal data:

    <snip>

    The right to rectification this just means they can update their data if its inaccurate or if something is missing. Adult members will be able to edit and update some information directly on the Compass membership system.
    That said I would agree with RisingStar, concentrate your energy somewhere else.
    James

  17. #73
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    As I feared and suspected in post #30, it has not ended well. I would second RisingStar's suggestion of an SAR, but at the end of the day, I think you will have to accept that you are unlikely to be an adult member of TSA and you should concentrate your energies elsewhere.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  18. #74
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    TSA does not have to disclose the reasons why it has refused membership. Hamilton took his complaint to the highest court and TSA was vindicated in not revealing their reasons for refusal.

    Bernwood needs to reconsider his situation. He can make a complaint via due process, but since he is not a member no-one will listen. He could go to Law, but QV Hamilton v TSA. or he can find another avenue to follow his interests.

    I'm going to be pretty blunt here. As someone running an independent group and as a consequence very protective of our reputation. Knowing what I know from the posts here, I would be reluctant to agree to giving Bernwood a post in my Group. Now that might seem outrageously unfair, but without evidence to the contrary, if he is not suitable for TSA then he is in all probability not suitable for an Independent Group. I did advise against pushing against TSA lest this very outcome should arise.

    Furthermore other SA may well take a similar view. The Federation are v. protective and operate a bit of a "closed door" society. UKBPSA might have been open to someone who walked away from TSA, but perhaps not so keen on someone rejected by TSA.

    This is not a sleight on Bernwood, but an assessment of how an approach "might" be considered.

    Time for Bernwood to take up another interest, I'm afraid - or become embittered by his rejection.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  19. #75
    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback. I'm letting it go - there loss in the end, not mind. I would have enjoyed it, and would have given it 110% to run a great Cub Scout Pack. If they want to run their archaic closed kangaroo style of running things, it's now their look out.

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