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Thread: An idea for leader recruitment

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    So what about setting up say a facebook group like 'friends or ex-members of xx scout group' then inviting members to join it. They then have an opportunity to ignore it, join it, leave it at will.
    I think if you included the fact that it was for recruitment in the description that would be reasonable consent, but without that it could still be dodgy.

    GDPR was primarily an anti-marketing law...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    It's not just about financial benefit, it's about any benefit.

    The only way you would get away with this would be if they were your personal photographs and you weren't doing it on behalf of the Group per-se. GDPR does not apply to any personal matters at all.
    The 'and' in my comment was key. What you say would (may) be true, IF the people involved weren't old acquaintances. I'm not usually a fan of taking things further than they were ever intended to go (it really is a blight on forum discourse). But when it comes to definitions of law/statutes - you need to think about it, because precedents can be set.

    To me*, consent is already there because the photo exists and the people are demonstrably known to each other.





    * Although it should be noted, I know nothing.

  3. #18
    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Cheers for the thoughts so far chaps. The GDPR thing isn't something that had really crossed my mind but is something to consider.

    Now this idea I like.

    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    So what about setting up say a facebook group like 'friends or ex-members of xx scout group' then inviting members to join it. They then have an opportunity to ignore it, join it, leave it at will.
    Putting the GDPR issue to one side for the moment having facebook or similar group for alumni and the like could also provide a way of picking out the potential targets better. Looking at the photos there are those I'm still in touch with (one is final year at university, heavily into scout network at university, he's top of the hit list when he graduates in the summer!) to those I have heard news of on the grapevine to those who's name I vaguely remember but haven't seen or heard of for a decade to those who's face I see and I think, well I vaguely remember them but couldn't even tell you their name or what year it was. Having them in an alumni group where we post news, photos etc, see how they interact, see who shows a genuine interest could be a way of picking out those who may prove more fruitful.

    Shouldn't be too much extra work. We already have a "closed" group for parents and a public like page for a general presence. I imagine the alumni page looking like a combination of the two, a lot of stuff will be replicated but more reworded to apply to the old boys/girls.

    Just a thought!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    This is probably pragmatically how it would go. But it is still technically a breach.
    I'd take the chance if I were going to do this. I'm not. I'm in contact with those who still want to be in contact and I wouldn't waste time and effort chasing people who hadn't glanced over their shoulder since moving on.

    Quality is better than quantity.
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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    This is probably pragmatically how it would go. But it is still technically a breach.....................
    Surely this is only your view/interpretation of the legislation? Until this has been tested in the courts in the circumstances described, I don't see how anyone can say categorically that it is a breach of the legislation, technical or otherwise!
    Peter

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    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.Ě Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    This is probably pragmatically how it would go. But it is still technically a breach.
    Yes, probably technically a breach. But who cares?

    In the extraordinarily unlikely event that the ICO is going to be interested in a Scout Group contacting its previous members in this way, what would be the sanction? A mild slap on the wrist at the very very worst.

    Crack on and do it, and stick two fingers up to GDPR.

    Why not invite them to join an old members FB group and then use that to advertise vacancies etc. (in amongst lots of good news stuff showing your existing leaders having a blast!).


    (I think I might have been doing 72 miles an hour on the motorway coming home tonight too - strangely I was not the only one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Surely this is only your view/interpretation of the legislation? Until this has been tested in the courts in the circumstances described, I don't see how anyone can say categorically that it is a breach of the legislation, technical or otherwise!
    Exactly, and think about the problems GDPR was introduced to solve. I'm pretty sure contacting an old scout acquaintance via Facebook wasn't one of them.

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    I am assuming you were not given their Facebook profile as part of data. So if you got in touch via Facebook, how could that be a breach? You have not misused data they have you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by claire.shadbolt View Post
    I am assuming you were not given their Facebook profile as part of data. So if you got in touch via Facebook, how could that be a breach? You have not misused data they have you.


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    It's the photos that would be being misused.

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    It's the photos that would be being misused.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
    I didnít think photos constitutes data for GDPR purposes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    I didnít think photos constitutes data for GDPR purposes?
    They only don't if stored in such a way that they cannot be used to identify an individual.

    If they are being used to identify an individual, as is proposed, this is clearly not the case.

  13. #27
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    I really don't think this is what GDPR was supposed to deal with. We're talking about a pile of photos with people in them who (presumably) knew the photo was being taken, who knew the person who took them - who in turn also knew who they were taking photos of.

    The OP (as I understood it) wanted to send a message with some photos attached which included the person they were sending the message to (along with others - who were already all known to each other.)

    I don't even think GDPR was written with this interpretation in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I really don't think this is what GDPR was supposed to deal with. We're talking about a pile of photos with people in them who (presumably) knew the photo was being taken, who knew the person who took them - who in turn also knew who they were taking photos of.

    The OP (as I understood it) wanted to send a message with some photos attached which included the person they were sending the message to (along with others - who were already all known to each other.)

    I don't even think GDPR was written with this interpretation in mind.
    Sending the photos to said people if you have kept in contact with them would be fine. However if you are using some old contact details from their time in Scouting which you/the Group have not used in the meantime (i.e. for years) then the question has to be asked why the Scout Group still holds this information without knowing if it is still correct or having used it (I believe the advice is that you need at least annual contact with someone to justify holding their contact details). Using possibly out of date contact details to try to recruit people as volunteers would therefore possibly be a double preach of GDPR. Having said all that I agree that is unlikely anyone contacted in such a manner will think anything of it nevermind complain to the Information Commissioner about it.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Sending the photos to said people if you have kept in contact with them would be fine. However if you are using some old contact details from their time in Scouting which you/the Group have not used in the meantime (i.e. for years) then the question has to be asked why the Scout Group still holds this information without knowing if it is still correct or having used it (I believe the advice is that you need at least annual contact with someone to justify holding their contact details). Using possibly out of date contact details to try to recruit people as volunteers would therefore possibly be a double preach of GDPR. Having said all that I agree that is unlikely anyone contacted in such a manner will think anything of it nevermind complain to the Information Commissioner about it.

    There is a bit of a conflict with HMRC requirements and GDPR. In that when we claim Gift Aid we use the details of the parents who contribute. Those details have to be retained for six/ seven years. So, in theory, we should contact the parents of every young person who has left for six/ seven years, every year, after they have left. We address this with a note on our registration form, that data will be retained for seven years afte resignation from the Group. Not 100% Kosher, but it will do.

    I think that someone would have to be somewhat petty-minded to complain.
    Ewan Scott

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  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Sending the photos to said people if you have kept in contact with them would be fine. However if you are using some old contact details from their time in Scouting which you/the Group have not used in the meantime (i.e. for years) then the question has to be asked why the Scout Group still holds this information without knowing if it is still correct or having used it (I believe the advice is that you need at least annual contact with someone to justify holding their contact details). Using possibly out of date contact details to try to recruit people as volunteers would therefore possibly be a double preach of GDPR. Having said all that I agree that is unlikely anyone contacted in such a manner will think anything of it nevermind complain to the Information Commissioner about it.
    I don't think that's relevant here, and how would you quantify 'keeping in touch' these days anyway? I don't think GDPR covers human memory.

    Scouts is an oddity, I suppose it depends on the ethos of your group. If it's a huge thing with hundreds of members and 10's of volunteers - it might be a wee bit like work, perhaps not as personable as a smaller group. Generally, leader teams (where we are anyway), which is to say, people who have come and gone, would at the very least be on speaking terms regardless of time passed - so could be described as acquaintances indefinitely.

    It's another thing GDPR was never meant to cover. A world in which you wouldn't get back in touch with someone you spent time with (and had great fun) because 'GDPR', well, I'm thinking it wouldn't be a great world. Why create that kind of reality at all?

    Getting all existential on eScouts...


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