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Thread: Hardship policy

  1. #46
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    I did not quote you out of context, go read your own posts, you specifically said other parents will end up paying for it, you even said it twice in the same post there was no wider contact or else I wouldn't have picked up on it. You didn't say they may end up paying for it or in some Group's they will end up paying for it you basically stated it as a fact that all hardship payments are funded by the other parents in a Group which is clearly not the case in many Groups.
    Bit of a moot point, but in the long run, they do. Not that it matters so long as the "system" is not abused.
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  2. #47
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    Since posting the question, I have been very quiet. But I have read all the replies and they are very informative. Thank you.


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  4. #48
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    We're also in an affluent area, so we don't need this too often but, on the other hand, when we do, we're well-enough funded that it's not hard to offer. We've had a policy for decades that we'll help where it's needed, but it's only actually required from time to time. We mention it in odd places. If you think it's needed and you don't want to offer directly, just be a little more prominent in the way you remind everyone that help is available, and whom they should ask in confidence (usually the GSL and/or a section leader). We've never to my knowledge had worries about whether someone was taking advantage.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

  5. #49
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    And you've missed my point entirely. What if, in all the poking around you're doing to make sure, (god forbid), some fiend won't be getting something you don't think they're entitled to (presumably based on your perception of what constitutes a 'conscientious' person), the kid involved finds out you've been sniffing around his or her family?

    What if you get it wrong? What if there is a family break up but you don't find out about it and the kid misses out? Heck, what if all their 'nice stuff' comes from Bright House? What if the parents are just feckless? Should the kid be penalised for that?

    This could loosely be correlated with means testing - by which I mean, the only reason you'd ever means test anything is to save money. If you're not doing it for that, then all you're doing is spending time and money on a petty exercise in making sure someone doesn't get something you don't think they deserve - which rather flies in the face of it being a money-saving exercise. For us, we wouldn't be paying for the means testing with money, we'd be paying for it (potentially) with the well being of a young person.

    All so your group could save a few quid? To me, it's not worth the bother.
    It's nothing to do with "saving a few quid", but doing what is legally required to be done by the Trustees and ensuring that the group's funds are used properly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    That is not always true. For example our Group receives regular donations from a couple of former members specifically to help enable kids to participate in Scouting who might otherwise struggle to afford to do so, we also do external fundraising (bag packs etc) where the funds raised are not coming from parents.
    Then you have a ringfenced hardship fund. But you must still ensure that these are used properly - and if you use other fundraising monies for this too, you are still depriving other YP of the benefit of the money being spent on something for them.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Senior Member Shaun's Avatar
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    Hardship funds are, as we see here, prone to cause disagreements.
    There will be genuine cases of children who canít go on activities for numerous reasons.
    Some will genuinely have no money, for reasons that may be obvious, which may or may not invoke feelings of benevolence.
    Child A. No money parent has lost job
    Child B. No money parent has a gambling problem.
    Child C. No money, is one of 6 kids parents never worked

    Others will have money but other priorities

    Other priorities:
    Family holiday
    Teaching child value of money
    Keeping business afloat
    Saving for major item

    Or even kids themselves:

    Child D, PL has strong skillset will be an asset to the camp
    Child E, new Scout learning the ropes
    Child F, challenging behaviour, likely to cause at least one incident requiring intervention

    Going back to the top Child B could be the classic parent say they have no money but then buy a new TV, Luxury holiday two weeks later when the horse comes in.

    Who gets help to go on camp?
    You decide...


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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    It's nothing to do with "saving a few quid", but doing what is legally required to be done by the Trustees and ensuring that the group's funds are used properly.
    Sure.

    It's also got 'nothing to do with' person A making arbitrary judgements about persons B, lest persons B get something person A doesn't think they deserve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Sure.

    It's also got 'nothing to do with' person A making arbitrary judgements about persons B, lest persons B get something person A doesn't think they deserve.
    At no point has anyone mentioned making "arbitrary judgements" about anyone!
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    At no point has anyone mentioned making "arbitrary judgements" about anyone!
    I did, and others have too, although not using that exact combination of words.

    I don't disagree with you though, it is about getting value for money in line with the aims of the charity etc etc etc. But there's an awful lot of people peering over each other's fences (so to speak), for fear their neighbours (again, so to speak) might be getting something they're not, or are getting something they're not entitled to because {insert reason here}.

    It's unseemly and a bit of an over reaction given how often it's happening and the context for it.

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  11. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I did, and others have too, although not using that exact combination of words.

    I don't disagree with you though, it is about getting value for money in line with the aims of the charity etc etc etc. But there's an awful lot of people peering over each other's fences (so to speak), for fear their neighbours (again, so to speak) might be getting something they're not, or are getting something they're not entitled to because {insert reason here}.

    It's unseemly and a bit of an over reaction given how often it's happening and the context for it.
    It's most cetrianly not about peering into people's lives, but about ensuring that to the best of our knowledge we are not being taken advantage of as a "soft touch" charity. As I've said above, if you know your YP well, you'll likely know who the people are who would be appropriate candidates for a hardship fund - and who certainly wouldn't.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  12. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    It's most cetrianly not about peering into people's lives, but about ensuring that to the best of our knowledge we are not being taken advantage of as a "soft touch" charity. As I've said above, if you know your YP well, you'll likely know who the people are who would be appropriate candidates for a hardship fund - and who certainly wouldn't.
    I don't think you can have a hardship find without engaging in at least a little peering into the lives of others. We all do it to some extent and I suppose some groups (the smaller ones perhaps), are more conducive to it than the bigger ones.

    I suppose, all I would say is, a hardship fund doesn't just deal with financial hardship. We've had family break ups were we've known nothing about it (we're a small group in a small village). The kids missed out, we wondered why, and that was the answer. They continued living in their big house with their big telly, except Dad (and in another case, mum) wasn't home any more.

    As you say though, they weren't appropriate candidates...

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