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Thread: Banking

  1. #1
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    Banking

    Not the usual dual signatory stuff but something more basic. I have just spent over an hour on a live chat facility attempting to complete a Customer Information Review. This came completely out of the blue to our treasurer. She received a letter from HSBC saying that they needed to do a customer information review. She rang the given number ands found that she wasn't the person to compete the documentation!! The letter was passed to me and a few days later I received a phone call from a person claiming to be from HSBC asking to speak to a gentleman who used to be our treasurer but had died about 10 years ago!! . After some manouvering I finally convinced myself that it was a genuine HSBC call. The end result was the receipt of an email giving me a link to the customer information review and some codes for accessing it. The form, all 11 pages of it, requires, amongst other things, the completion of a section confirming what best describes your "business"!! Within this list there is no mention of charity, youth facility or anything which would lend itself to describing a scout group. Anyway, I waded through thios document declaring that we had no dealings in the Middle East, Russia, Argentina etc, etc. The form eventually asked if we were a charity and asked for our registered charity number which I duly entered. It so happens that we are registered due to some legal advice received many years ago even though we don't own any property. Having completed the form I returned it as requested. Today I received notification that HSBC needed more information. We have banked with HSBC for nearly 60 years!! It was clearly a case for a Live Chat session! Live chat didn't seem to understand Scout Group!! Live Chat didn't seem to understand that if I quoted a charity number then it was very easy for the team handling these documents to refer to the Charity Commission to obtain proof of what I was saying. From a security point of view I would have thought this was the desirable route to follow. HSBC now want me to prove that we are registered as a charity and prove my identity. None of this is hard to do but it got me wondering if other people are having the same experience both with banks and also external knowledge of the existence of scouting.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    I had a similar experience with HMRC last year on my own account, and also with the CC when we made our annual return.

    It is all to do with a clamp-down on laundering for crime and terrorist activities.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Yep. It is going to come to all non personal accounts, and it will probably be a regular occurrence.

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    It used to be possible to go to an airport, check-in, get on a pane and fly to your destination. Thanks to the activities of criminals and "terrorists" ( I use the term advisedly), we are now expected, where possible to check-in in advance, we may need visas for countries we didn't need them for before. Our baggage is checked more rigorously, the contents of our hand baggage are restricted. We have to take off our jackets, belts and sometimes shoes at the border check.

    As a result, planes tend not to be hi-jacked any more.

    The attack on our society and our personal lives has moved to finance and as a result greater checks and guards are being put in place. It used to be possible to walk into a bank with some cash and open a bank account. Today, hoops have to be jumped through.

    I think that we need to have a little patience and understanding for those who have to carry out the new levels of due diligence, and expect more such "intrusions" in future.

    Our task may be to do our little bit to help prevent radicalisatin by developing a sense of community and belonging - I think.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Yup.

    Filling out the CAF bank application form, there are reams of pages concerned with asking about any links you might have with the middle east, foreign property, Russian Mafia, maybe - and all sorts of other stuff. Presumably HSBC (which if I remember correctly, has been implicated in some seriously illegal shenanigans - allegedly) is trying to catch up by re-assessing UK Scout Groups.

    One can only assume they've finished working their way through all the Russian Oligarch/Mafia accounts they have...

    Allegedly.


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    HSBC got heavily stung for weaknesses in Money Laundering procedures a while back and have progressively tightened up since. The information stuff is a bit of a pain but you ride with it - its when transactions disappear in mid "transit" because something has flagged on their system as being suspicious that it starts to get hairy - especially when you have a client sitting in a removal van somewhere waiting for the money to arrive so they can get the keys! The real pain is that there are anti tipping off provisions that stop them telling you that the money has been referred for money laundering checks so to the uninitiated in this stuff it just looks like its got lost. I kid you not that on one occasion the reason it got diverted was because the solicitors initials used as part of the payment reference corresponded with some alert code in their system!

    Still laugh about the day (about 10 years ago) I had to take £40k in old white fivers and other defunct currency to the bank in a box to sit in their safe whilst the relevant authorities cleared it to be banked - the young lady on the enquiry desk went a very funny shade of pale when she realised she was in the presences of that sort of cash in the open part of the bank.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    Yep. It is going to come to all non personal accounts, and it will probably be a regular occurrence.
    Because it's easier for governments, banks, etc to be 'seen to be doing something' by making small organisations with a few thousands pounds and no influence jump through lots of hoops, rather than actually tackle the real problem that is multi billion pound international money launderers who might take their lucrative business elsewhere if the governments, banks, etc upset them.

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    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pstretch View Post
    Because it's easier for governments, banks, etc to be 'seen to be doing something' by making small organisations with a few thousands pounds and no influence jump through lots of hoops, rather than actually tackle the real problem that is multi billion pound international money launderers who might take their lucrative business elsewhere if the governments, banks, etc upset them.
    Sorry - that's rubbish. This stuff has been happening to larger / riskier accounts for years and is gradually moving down. Have no mistake, money laundering leads to criminal activities and good people loosing. This stuff won't stop it all, but it will make it more difficult for those who are not good people! For more info on various aspects, take a look here: https://www.cafonline.org/about-us/security-centre

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    Sorry - that's rubbish. This stuff has been happening to larger / riskier accounts for years and is gradually moving down. Have no mistake, money laundering leads to criminal activities and good people loosing. This stuff won't stop it all, but it will make it more difficult for those who are not good people! For more info on various aspects, take a look here: https://www.cafonline.org/about-us/security-centre
    Hmmm...

    The UK has a terrible reputation when it comes to this sort of activity. I'm not so sure it is rubbish. It's also not just larger accounts it's aimed at, it's the hundreds (thousands?) of smaller accounts doing the work of single larger accounts.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Oh, Charity Commission just asked us to confirm our details. They have now asked for our HMRC registration number...

    They have never ased for this before. In fact, the only people who ever asked for it were HMRC the one time that we claimed Gift Aid before becoming a registered charity. Loks like they will be linking up with HMRC to ensure that Revenue know that we exist.

    Thing is, not a lot of people know about the HMRC registration number...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    My latest return to HSBC has bounced once again. Not sure what they want now! What surprises me is that the explorer unit bank account is also with HSBC and there has been no communication whatsoever about this. Maybe they will follow up with this. Strange Ewan, (??), The HSBC form asks for a TIC - tax identification code - I left this unanswered as unavailable. Hadn't thought about our gift aid registration number!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    Sorry - that's rubbish. This stuff has been happening to larger / riskier accounts for years and is gradually moving down. Have no mistake, money laundering leads to criminal activities and good people loosing. This stuff won't stop it all, but it will make it more difficult for those who are not good people! For more info on various aspects, take a look here: https://www.cafonline.org/about-us/security-centre
    I work for a bank so I suspect I understand AML, KYB and KYC better than most.

    Next you’ll be telling me that ‘if you’ve done nothing wrong you’ll have nothing to worry about...’

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    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pstretch View Post
    I work for a bank so I suspect I understand AML, KYB and KYC better than most.

    Next you’ll be telling me that ‘if you’ve done nothing wrong you’ll have nothing to worry about...’
    Ditto. The key question isn't whether you have done anything - the question is do you have some kind of governance.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by boballan View Post
    My latest return to HSBC has bounced once again. Not sure what they want now! What surprises me is that the explorer unit bank account is also with HSBC and there has been no communication whatsoever about this. Maybe they will follow up with this. Strange Ewan, (??), The HSBC form asks for a TIC - tax identification code - I left this unanswered as unavailable. Hadn't thought about our gift aid registration number!!

    We have never ben asked for a TIC. I had to trawl through all be the back accounts to find the letter. Not an issue really, just showing how there is an element of joined up thinking developing.

    There is a huge gap in financial security for some groups who have been told by the local council that they do not need to register... ( not scouts) Leaving themselves open to abuse.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by boballan View Post
    My latest return to HSBC has bounced once again. Not sure what they want now! What surprises me is that the explorer unit bank account is also with HSBC and there has been no communication whatsoever about this. Maybe they will follow up with this. Strange Ewan, (??), The HSBC form asks for a TIC - tax identification code - I left this unanswered as unavailable. Hadn't thought about our gift aid registration number!!
    Turns out that they claim to have been unable to establish whether we are a charity and many other catchall statements. I wish they would be more specific. Anyway, I did what they could have done - I visited the Charity Commission website, searched for the scout group using our registered number (incidentally, I had already given this information where requested) and found all the details of our group, its records of returns, its trustees, its area of operation etc. etc. I copied the Charity Details using the Charity Commission website tool and have now forwarded this information along with a copy of my passport - a reference to this was also listed in the returned form. Hopefully, this will satisfy them. My main ripe about all this is that HSBC do not seem to appreciate that the questions they ask and the answers they receive allow them to indepependently verify that what they are being told is correct or otherwise. Imagine how it would be if DBS operated in the same way and you were allowed to generate confirmation of the data you have provided for them to check independently. It smacks of incompetency in a big way or, they are simply paying lip service to what is an extremely serious matter.

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