Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 62

Thread: Scouts in schools - I am a long way from convinced.

  1. #46
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,601
    Thanks
    1,525
    Thanked 2,139 Times in 1,251 Posts
    Yeah, but everyone's got a DofE school horror story haven't they?

    I quite enjoyed the year my daughter did silver, and I went along for the first morning of the practice as a volunteer to make sure they could map read. I think one of the team was one of my Explorers, though memory may be playing tricks, but I didn't cut them any slack, it just broke the ice nicely. I spent the morning bluffing and double bluffing them until they didn't know which way was up.
    ...
    Where are on the map? Show me.
    Here.
    How do you know? Prove it?
    ...
    Are you sure it's this way? (and they didn't pick up on the fact I wasn't starting down the hill behind them might be a clue that it wasn't)
    ...
    Why do you think it's this way? What evidence can you see to back up that opinion?
    ...
    How long will it take us to get to the next junction?

    etc etc

    May have been called something rude at one point, but it was probably fair enough.

    Still, they weren't going to learn any navigation skills by me trolling along at the back keeping ma gob shut. Mwa ha ha haaaa [evil laugh].
    Last edited by ianw; 15-04-2019 at 03:33 PM.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  2. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Lisburn
    Posts
    664
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 126 Times in 85 Posts
    Is this why the practice expedition are now unaccompanied instead of requiring a resident troll asking awkward questions (did you ask them about flying speeds of African Swallows)?

  3. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,978
    Thanks
    2,657
    Thanked 1,997 Times in 1,263 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    The remaining three, well mum had decided that her kids were not eating dehydrated food. So, she had packed them a potato each and a bit of rump steak each.
    That sounds like me, though if I was doing steak on a Trangia I'd slice it up into strips.

    As I'm big and heavy anyway I can carry about 30kg comfortably, or a bit more with some effort. I don't need to put up with eating dehydrated muck

  4. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Lisburn
    Posts
    664
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 126 Times in 85 Posts
    I see in the latest DofE that Ofsted is changing the schools inspection framework to include the broadening of young people’s horizons.

    I can see DofE being pushed even harder by schools in the future.

  5. #50
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    926
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 178 Times in 99 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    I can see DofE being pushed even harder by schools in the future.
    Is this really a bad thing - however poor (when compared to Scouting provision) at least it gets a large number of YP off their phones for a few hours and out into the real World, which wouldn't happen otherwise. Also, the schools don't have a monopoly on running DofE badly, I have some scouting DofE horror stories too.

    Its disappointing seeing so many scouters knocking the schools' efforts - they're providing something we're not, maybe we should be looking at sharing expertise instead?
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

  6. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Lisburn
    Posts
    664
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 126 Times in 85 Posts
    It won’t be a bad thing if it’s done right. If you are going to measure schools by getting pupils through DofE then schools will get pupils through DofE. I’ve seen similar when I was working, HR brings out a new way to measure performance and the staff, sorry “human resources”, all start doing things that show they are “performing” regardless if it’s the right thing to do to get the work out the door. You tend to get what you measure.

    Like many on here I’ve seen schools, groups (including scouts) and external providers provide good experiences and also provide a complete laid on package where the young people only have to turn up and walk or paddle.

    If DofE is going to be a key measure then it really needs to sort out it’s processes, governance and checking. Imagine the impact of an Ofsted inspection reporting a schools DofE outcomes were “suspect”.

  7. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,231
    Thanks
    1,511
    Thanked 1,167 Times in 848 Posts
    We were talking about this recently.

    Obvs education is devolved in Scotland, but in terms of DoE, if/when it becomes part of the curriculum, inevitably, it'll be open to target fixation by school managers.

    Which is interesting, because we have chatted off and on here about targets being introduced for scouty stuff too... So maybe at the coalface, we can still feel a little superior, but up at management level - hmmm... I'm not so sure the direction of travel doesn't make TSA a wee bit hypocritical - if they're thinking we're better placed to do stuff like DoE.

    (This chat was with Explorer parents/also one of our cub leaders. Their 18yo son and ex-Explorer went to uni in Glasgow last year. During that process he mentioned his DoE award (probably silver at least), and the interviewer/entrance person just shrugged and said it didn't matter - grades were the thing. I think these stories about DoE being spotty in terms of quality have gotten round.)
    Last edited by pa_broon74; 23-04-2019 at 09:21 AM.

  8. #53
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,240
    Thanks
    899
    Thanked 627 Times in 417 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    We were talking about this recently.

    Obvs education is devolved in Scotland, but in terms of DoE, if/when it becomes part of the curriculum, inevitably, it'll be open to target fixation by school managers.

    Which is interesting, because we have chatted off and on here about targets being introduced for scouty stuff too... So maybe at the coalface, we can still feel a little superior, but up at management level - hmmm... I'm not so sure the direction of travel doesn't make TSA a wee bit hypocritical - if they're thinking we're better placed to do stuff like DoE.

    (This chat was with Explorer parents/also one of our cub leaders. Their 18yo son and ex-Explorer went to uni in Glasgow last year. During that process he mentioned his DoE award (probably silver at least), and the interviewer/entrance person just shrugged and said it didn't matter - grades were the thing. I think these stories about DoE being spotty in terms of quality have gotten round.)
    Tbh that will depend a lot of what the course is and what the uni is looking for.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
    Web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.

    Social media
    Twitter: @WNScouts / @9NWScouts
    Facebook: /WNScouts
    Instagram: @WNScouts

  9. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,231
    Thanks
    1,511
    Thanked 1,167 Times in 848 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Tbh that will depend a lot of what the course is and what the uni is looking for.
    I could understand that, but pretty much all bar one of my old Explorers did DoE, and they all said a version of the the same thing. Granted, none of them are doing outdoor ed or anything like that, but DoE isn't being sold as an outdoor qualification - it's all about leadership and that old standard of 'proving you can look after yourself and lead blah blah blah...'

    Scouts (I suspect) may be the same, people putting their Chief Scout Award on their CV - I mean I know folk used to do it... Apparently Eagle Scout still goes down well in the US...

  10. #55
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,240
    Thanks
    899
    Thanked 627 Times in 417 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I could understand that, but pretty much all bar one of my old Explorers did DoE, and they all said a version of the the same thing. Granted, none of them are doing outdoor ed or anything like that, but DoE isn't being sold as an outdoor qualification - it's all about leadership and that old standard of 'proving you can look after yourself and lead blah blah blah...'

    Scouts (I suspect) may be the same, people putting their Chief Scout Award on their CV - I mean I know folk used to do it... Apparently Eagle Scout still goes down well in the US...
    It definitely makes a differnt when job hunting. As an employer, those sort of extra-curricular elements are vital when hiring new grads in particular.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
    Web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.

    Social media
    Twitter: @WNScouts / @9NWScouts
    Facebook: /WNScouts
    Instagram: @WNScouts

  11. #56
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,601
    Thanks
    1,525
    Thanked 2,139 Times in 1,251 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    It definitely makes a differnt when job hunting. As an employer, those sort of extra-curricular elements are vital when hiring new grads in particular.
    I know it was a long time ago, but scouts definitely got me one job, which I stayed at for 17 years, probably just got lucky that the interviewer was terrible and was a Venture Scout so just talked about their time in Venture scouting while I nodded and joined in the reminiscing. I know, sample of one.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  12. #57
    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cambridge
    Posts
    2,127
    Thanks
    86
    Thanked 860 Times in 364 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    I know it was a long time ago, but scouts definitely got me one job, which I stayed at for 17 years, probably just got lucky that the interviewer was terrible and was a Venture Scout so just talked about their time in Venture scouting while I nodded and joined in the reminiscing. I know, sample of one.
    Back when I was applying for jobs post university, 1999/2000 I had an interview with the Halifax where they openly told me I had got an interview because of my Queens scout. It was one of a list of things which, assuming you met the minimum requirements (a 2:2 I think) which got you an interview. That list also included Queen Guide and D of E Gold.

    Whether itís the same now I have no idea.

    Didnít get the job!

  13. #58
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    926
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 178 Times in 99 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    Back when I was applying for jobs post university, 1999/2000 I had an interview with the Halifax where they openly told me I had got an interview because of my Queens scout. It was one of a list of things which, assuming you met the minimum requirements (a 2:2 I think) which got you an interview. That list also included Queen Guide and D of E Gold.

    Whether it’s the same now I have no idea.

    Didn’t get the job!
    Recently an Explorer in our District went for an interview and was asked to give an example of when she had worked as part of a team. She started by saying 'I'm a Explorer Scout and a Young Leader'. The interviewer stopped her there and said thank you - we don't need to hear any more. She got the job, so I guess we are still relevant and do still have a good reputation in some areas.
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Keith at 2M For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (23-04-2019)

  15. #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,231
    Thanks
    1,511
    Thanked 1,167 Times in 848 Posts
    I think we're now on to comparing Scouts with DoE, which is, ummm, something, but it's not what I said originally.

    The only thing Scouts has in common with DoE is some content - everything else is completely different, so can't reasonably be compared.

    The kind of commitment you need for Scouting (shoddy standards not-with-standing - what goes on with DoE does occasionally go on in Scouts too), is far greater than that needed for DoE.

    So, I dare say there is a certain cachet with Scouts when it comes to getting jobs/places on courses. That said, we can't know how often people have been rejected because of their scouting background because someone in the process had a bad experience. or holds many of the usual lazy prejudices about Scouts that do the rounds. But then, would you want to work for someone like that? Perhaps not, so include it always.

    I would say though, on balance, if I was going for other jobs, I'd include it - and I'd advise young folk to do the same. I think I've written about half a dozen references over the past 12 months for one thing or another.

  16. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    2,315
    Thanks
    442
    Thanked 518 Times in 319 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I.............

    The kind of commitment you need for Scouting (shoddy standards not-with-standing - what goes on with DoE does occasionally go on in Scouts too), is far greater than that needed for DoE.
    .
    Absolutely, don't think for a second that Explorers always run to the highest standards, in particular I've seen some pretty poor service and skills sign offs within the movement...

Similar Threads

  1. Scouting in Schools
    By scarlet pimp in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 17-10-2015, 09:21 PM
  2. ICT in schools
    By DonTregartha in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 12-01-2012, 04:13 PM
  3. Scouting into schools
    By Akela Ben in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-02-2010, 11:37 AM
  4. Recruiting via schools
    By recneps in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 24-01-2010, 10:10 PM
  5. Scouts at Boarding Schools
    By RedSquirrel in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 25-03-2008, 11:24 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •