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Thread: Uniform review is here

  1. #16
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    The collar and body sizes bear literally no resemblance to any real life person. Why can't they just use normal shirt sizings?
    My 17 year old Leader shirt still fits fine, I do suspect there has been a change of supplier in recent years as the compaints about bad sizing seem to have increased markedly.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Agree the survey was far too long and the questions did appear quite biased. My main comment however was to please PLEASE provide whichever Adult shirt/blouse/top combo they settle on in a better range of sizes/fits, and manufacture it from a much lighter material. In order to get a sensible sleeve length I could fit two of me into my shirt, and winter or summer I'm always too darned hot.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    In the bumph on the blog it said that no decisions have been made.

    I think we have heard that before.

    One thing I have never really understood about these surveys is the fact that they ask 'outsiders'. To my mind no matter what uniform is some people will not join as they don't want to not because of a uniform.

    Also changing a uniform to suit a few people (OK at lot) will not change Scouting but could make us look more like a youth club and remove that identifying part - although I'm sure Sea and Air Scouts will want to keep most of theirs (like the hats and berets they already do).
    If the main identifier of Scouts is uniform, then you have a serious issue.

    We runNavs wthout a uniform, it has not made us a youth club, in fact, the kids who want a youth club refuse to come to us. We are identified by our actions - I thought that was how scouts should also be identified
    Ewan Scott

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    One thing I did note was that the "what do you wear for activities after flag break" type question didn't include an option for "neckers off, keep shirt on" which is probably by far the most common.

  5. #20
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliveS View Post
    My main comment however was to please PLEASE provide whichever Adult shirt/blouse/top combo they settle on in a better range of sizes/fits, and manufacture it from a much lighter material.
    Whereas I would not want the Uniform shirt to be made of lighter material as it just wouldn't be hard wearing enough. I often wear a tshirt under mine as well (not in the summer mind)

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  6. #21
    Senior Member Shaun's Avatar
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    I donít like the open pocket on the shirt or the fact that children are expected to have trousers.


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    Shaun

    SL
    Hanging Heaton Scout Group

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    If the main identifier of Scouts is uniform, then you have a serious issue.

    We runNavs wthout a uniform, it has not made us a youth club, in fact, the kids who want a youth club refuse to come to us. We are identified by our actions - I thought that was how scouts should also be identified
    I appreciate what you are saying and I probably worded it badly.

    I do still think that some form of uniform is part of Scouts. I agree that for many reasons the current one whilst better than the previous one is not perfect but I suspect that we will never have a uniform that will be both practical and smart.

    I am not envisaging scouts going back to pre apr but the uniform then was made out of decent cloth for the time and was suitable for scouting at the time. I have never really bought the idea of scouts going hiking in uniform but if part of the uniform was a shirt made of quick drying sweat wicking material then it would be good to wear but then it would not be good to wear round a fire.

    But what is the purpose of uniform?
    I never suggest to scouts doing most activities in uniform so if only kept for best etc what is needed. Are modern material walking pants the modern equivalent of corduroy or wool shorts.

    Too many people to try to please but odd how some countries haven't changed the uniform much from the early days others like us didn't change for 60 years then have changed both in small ways and major ways a few times in 50 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    I donít like the open pocket on the shirt or the fact that children are expected to have trousers.


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    They are not.

    They can wear shorts, skirts, kilts too.

    I think that many of ours wear 'off brand' cargo trousers rather than the expensive Scout ones.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post

    I do still think that some form of uniform is part of Scouts.

    Dave, I absolutley agree. Not having a uniform has some advantages but, on balance, I think a uniform of sorts is a good thing. I have thought from time to time about how a uniform could be useful, - identification, unity, sense of belonging, not to mention the many uses for the necker - any Scouter who sees no uses for the neckers is missing a trick.

    We made a clear decision NOT to clone Scouts in our Navigators, because we wanted to be seen as different and NOT just being another set of "Scouts". Some of my colleagues in Navigators disagree with me (quelle surprise) and opt for the whole cloned uniform - I think one adopted the Aussie version. Sometimes this is a sign that they have set up in competition with their old group/ district. We were brought about by requests from parents and members to do "something", that was not to clone Scouts. ( Any perception that we are competition comes from the other side of the fence). I like to think that we have the good bits, but I do miss the uniform, or elements of it.
    Ewan Scott

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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Whereas I would not want the Uniform shirt to be made of lighter material as it just wouldn't be hard wearing enough. I often wear a tshirt under mine as well (not in the summer mind)
    Pre 2002 you were both catered for as there were two weights of shirt available.

  11. #25
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    Haven't looked at the uniform 'survey', probably not much point really for reasons others have already outlined.

    We only ever do uniform above the waist, and leaders tend not to wear uniform at all except for neckers and the odd branded polo shirt. We've never really been big on it to be honest.

    I think it's probably fair to say this conversation does the rounds too. The uniform as is, is too formal. Ideally there would be a dress uniform (shirt etc) and ummm, a non-dress uniform, (t shirt or something). But then that gets expensive.

    Is it a barrier to membership? Probably, but it's what we do. We get the kids that'll accept it, and won't get those that won't.

    If I may unholster my wooden spoon... I wonder if the uniform had something to do with the membership drop off at age 14 way back when... Beavers and cubs, and young scouts wear what they're told to wear. There's still a drop off at age 14, for which there will be all sorts of reasons... But certainly, part of the issue we have with kids leaving when they move from primary to high school - is embarrassment around the uniform.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    If I may unholster my wooden spoon... I wonder if the uniform had something to do with the membership drop off at age 14 way back when... Beavers and cubs, and young scouts wear what they're told to wear. There's still a drop off at age 14, for which there will be all sorts of reasons... But certainly, part of the issue we have with kids leaving when they move from primary to high school - is embarrassment around the uniform.
    Mayhap... but the received wisom at what is left of YPS is, once they reach 15 we can't do anything with them. Okay, a different "set" of kids but there is a sort of logic to the thinking.

    I find that where we do keep them it is because we give them a sense of belonging, and they "get" that esprit de corps - of course, that can also work against us if their EDC lies in a peer group that loses interest...
    Ewan Scott

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  13. #27
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    That's also what we're aiming for, but TSA is trying to wring out of Scouts - humanity and character.

  14. #28
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    If I may unholster my wooden spoon... I wonder if the uniform had something to do with the membership drop off at age 14 way back when... Beavers and cubs, and young scouts wear what they're told to wear. There's still a drop off at age 14, for which there will be all sorts of reasons... But certainly, part of the issue we have with kids leaving when they move from primary to high school - is embarrassment around the uniform.
    Agreed. My lot aren't reluctant Explorers, and they'll "happily" wear uniform to camp, and some units are more insistent on it week to week, and are happy on camp/remembrance parades together in uniform, but as the saying goes, the nail that sticks out gets the hammer. They don't want to draw attention to themselves as "different", particularly in a school context, they don't want to be the target. Smart shirts, hoodies, polo shirts, string vests won't make a jot of difference, no matter how achingly trendy the item might be, if it's a uniform, and it tells the bullies, or the ones that gyp people about stuff, that they're part of something "other"...not keen.
    Last edited by ianw; 06-06-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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  16. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Rush View Post
    Pre 2002 you were both catered for as there were two weights of shirt available.
    There still are, though the lighter one is short sleeved.

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    There still are, though the lighter one is short sleeved.
    Must admit that my shirt is the thicker one as I like it better but had it converted to short sleeves.

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