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Thread: A union for volunteers?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    What no targets?
    KPI's - tick


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Line managers - tick
    Compulsory training - tick
    Management structure - tick
    recruitment process - tick
    interview panels - tick
    disciplinary procedures - tick
    set hours - tick (sort of)
    training plan - tick
    review interviews - tick
    hierarchy - tick
    Uniform - tick (haha, sort of)
    salary - nope
    Actually, I would suspect this list is common amongst many large charities - especially those where the volunteer is dealing directly with the public (children or vulnerable adults).

    It is certainly true of the Samaritans (one that I have had some minor involvement with).

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippysurfer View Post
    Actually, I would suspect this list is common amongst many large charities - especially those where the volunteer is dealing directly with the public (children or vulnerable adults).

    It is certainly true of the Samaritans (one that I have had some minor involvement with).
    And I suspect it's true of many charities, that they're more and more being ran like corporate entities. As far back as, gosh, lets think - maybe 2004 or 5, I managed an Imperial Cancer Research shop. The shop manager job was paid as was the area manager's - paid shop managers being a new thing. The ladies that worked in the shop really couldn't see the point and were quite vocal about it.

    To be fair, the job I had was only temporary and any one of them could have done it - but - the area manager (who was an arsehole) wouldn't have been able to boss them about in the same way as he bossed me about.

    I can see Scouts going that way. What better way to maximise membership and inco- eh, I mean getting the scouting message out to as many young people as possible - than to have paid GSL's...



  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I can see Scouts going that way. What better way to maximise membership and inco- eh, I mean getting the scouting message out to as many young people as possible - than to have paid GSL's...


    Could not have afforded to pay me as GSL. It was about 30 hours a week some weeks. Staff management, Programme development. recruitment, funding applications, managing meetings, visiting sections, camps, kayaking, archery, groundskeeping, maintenance*, PR... at the going rate at the time for youth workers 375 per week, 19,500 per annum.

    * We waited over a year for a plumber to come and replace a broken toilet - so I sacked him off and did the plumbing myself. We needed to reclad our building and put new windows in - joiners all said it couldn't be done ( ie, they didn't want to do it), so we did it ourselves. All these things added up and maintenance on a 70 year old timber building was ongoing.
    Ewan Scott

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Could not have afforded to pay me as GSL. It was about 30 hours a week some weeks. Staff management, Programme development. recruitment, funding applications, managing meetings, visiting sections, camps, kayaking, archery, groundskeeping, maintenance*, PR... at the going rate at the time for youth workers 375 per week, 19,500 per annum.

    * We waited over a year for a plumber to come and replace a broken toilet - so I sacked him off and did the plumbing myself. We needed to reclad our building and put new windows in - joiners all said it couldn't be done ( ie, they didn't want to do it), so we did it ourselves. All these things added up and maintenance on a 70 year old timber building was ongoing.
    Yup.

    I reckon within ten years, we'll have paid DC's - not every where mind, but in the big urban areas. In a sense, I wouldn't disagree with that, if they rejigged payed staff away from HQ and moved it down a bit into districts... They'd still have the issue of volunteers not doing what they're told, but like in the charity shop sector, the DC can be bossed around by HQ.

  6. #21
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    What I find amazing, is that in many regards the movement is progressive, LGBT rights, Diversity, inclusion (almost to the point of going OTT). However when it comes to other things that other charities and buisness are well ahead of us with, it is very regressive, examples inlcude Greivance management, Safety management, Management skills, training.... Its like it sometimes acts something like between a Victorian Mill Owner or a communnist state!!

    I dont think the compalints procedure will change any time soon. Years ago when Tim was English comission I had the pleasure of meeting him when I was a DC, and he was persoanlly re writing the complaints procedure, so its his baby. However The association should recgnise the expections of volenteers has changed. They are a very valuable assett. Like anything you will always get a small majority or who do stuff wrong. But the majority expect to be treated in a professional and modern way.

    Some here may remember the discussions we had with Wayne regarding Unions.... Personnaly I like the idea, although a manager in my professional life, I am also a Prospect safety rep and do quite a bit of union stuff. I dont always agree with Union principals but I like that my union is Non Political and comming from the old Engineers and Managers association we generally seem to have a good relationship between buisness and the employee.

    I think the time is comming when the assocaition will have to change, be more open, have a set of better rules to support people etc.

    Personally i treat myself as an unpaid employee. as someone has already pointed out we meet all the requiements of an empolyee we are just not paid.......

    Just out of intrest does anyone know who the reps/ what union is available for the full time employees at Gillwell and the centres etc?
    Paul Austin
    Kent Scouts SASU Water team
    G0AXQ, intrests in Scouting, Cycling, Hiking, anything on the water. seeing the young people achive.

  7. #22
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I reckon within ten years, we'll have paid DC's - not every where mind, but in the big urban areas.
    I'll take that bet. I do not think we'll have paid DCs anywhere within 10 years.

    Usual camp wager? (Mars bar)
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    I'll take that bet. I do not think we'll have paid DCs anywhere within 10 years.

    Usual camp wager? (Mars bar)
    Are you sure? It's not that far fetched. We already had paid development officers... And in some places, where the DC is absent, we have paid HQ staff already doing many of the tasks a DC might do...

    Paid CC maybe? I'd wager a Mars Bar on that... Maybe a Freddo on paid DC's...


  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Are you sure? It's not that far fetched. We already had paid development officers... And in some places, where the DC is absent, we have paid HQ staff already doing many of the tasks a DC might do...

    Paid CC maybe? I'd wager a Mars Bar on that... Maybe a Freddo on paid DC's...

    Actually, yeah, Freddo easier to post to me when I win.

    And other people who get paid that happen to do bits of the role don't count.

    Bet:
    Someone being DC that is paid to be DC by June 2029 will not happen.
    Stake:
    1 Freddo

    They'll probably cost a quid by then!

    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Actually, yeah, Freddo easier to post to me when I win.

    And other people who get paid that happen to do bits of the role don't count.

    Bet:
    Someone being DC that is paid to be DC by June 2029 will not happen.
    Stake:
    1 Freddo

    They'll probably cost a quid by then!

    Hud the bus.

    Bet:

    Someone being paid to do most* duties currently undertaken by a DC.
    Stake:
    1 Freddo (Not caramel).


    * I'm prepared to be reasonable about this so 50% of duties, give or take.

  11. #26
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    I am not sure why I find the thought of paid staff so wrong. If you look at many other organisations they have paid (employed), Paid Volunteers and not paid volunteers. Arguably the amount of leaders now buying in services for actvties and even some counties seem to be suggesting that its easier just to agree contracts with local providers for lots of the adventrous stuff then we are heading there anyway.

    I guess the thing that would get mu back right up is if the paid people become more influencial or thought better of than the volenteers....

    But I guess if leaders and volenteers dont step for the roles or get permits etc then maybe thats an issue.
    Paul Austin
    Kent Scouts SASU Water team
    G0AXQ, intrests in Scouting, Cycling, Hiking, anything on the water. seeing the young people achive.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I am not sure why I find the thought of paid staff so wrong. If you look at many other organisations they have paid (employed), Paid Volunteers and not paid volunteers. Arguably the amount of leaders now buying in services for actvties and even some counties seem to be suggesting that its easier just to agree contracts with local providers for lots of the adventrous stuff then we are heading there anyway.

    I guess the thing that would get mu back right up is if the paid people become more influencial or thought better of than the volenteers....

    But I guess if leaders and volenteers dont step for the roles or get permits etc then maybe thats an issue.
    Its funny you should say that...

    As a volunteer/leader type... I just met with hill walking assessors from the neighbouring district (we don't have our own). We had the usual chat about experience - they were really keen for us to get on and obviously eminently qualified to do what they were doing. I was going to go for a T1 permit (summer), but I can't because it needed too much of my time and I felt they wanted to do too much assessment for it. They wanted a route card so I could do a walk I've already done with scouts more times than I can remember, which seemed strange to me. (I can almost feel some readers bristling and uttering the word COMPLACENCY under their breaths).

    It's a catch 22 situation, they don't know me, so I wouldn't expect them to just sign me off. People need to be qualified, and there needs to be some system of ensuring people have the right skills. However, that will take up more volunteer time. I could very easily spend just as much time getting permits as I do in front of actual scouts - and that's not even getting into all the group stuff you find yourself doing.

    (As an aside, a lot of local (district) knowledge about long standing leaders and what experience they have never made it on to Compass, and the people who knew it have moved on, so the knowledge has gone. Hence we now have people doing assessor roles who are requiring leaders to do assessments on things they've been doing for years.)

    So yeah, it is becoming a lot easier to just buy activities in that we might have done ourselves in the past, and just pass the costs onto parents. That doesn't bode well for the organisation in my mind either.

  13. #28
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    Oh yes permits my favourite subject. Everyone I have achieved has been a battle. Just heading into another battle over my canoe one. And I am even part of the county team! If you need help Andy cafery at hq is really good and can help point assessors at the right expectations. Remember it's about the skills you hold not how many hikes you have done.
    Paul Austin
    Kent Scouts SASU Water team
    G0AXQ, intrests in Scouting, Cycling, Hiking, anything on the water. seeing the young people achive.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Rover For This Useful Post:

    pa_broon74 (21-06-2019)

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