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Thread: Guns and society

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    I think there's a difference between living beyond your means to GET such a lifestyle, and struggling after you have already got there if you have a financial shock (which is much more difficult when you've already committed to contracts or bought car/TV etc).
    Unfortunately, with everything that's going on, more and more people are beginning to struggle through no fault of their own. People who don't have any sort of safety wedge - regardless of where they are on the social scale - find themselves with some difficult decisions to make.

    It's such a complicated conflicted area of life. I'm glad I don't have any responsibilities.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Unfortunately, with everything that's going on, more and more people are beginning to struggle through no fault of their own. People who don't have any sort of safety wedge - regardless of where they are on the social scale - find themselves with some difficult decisions to make.

    It's such a complicated conflicted area of life. I'm glad I don't have any responsibilities.
    Indeed. Though personally I feel that people should build up to such lifestyles with a safety wedge (by which I mean those who have a big house/car/holidays). Financial management is a key #skillforlife that isn't often taught, in schools or Scouting, and is often most needed by those whose parents are affluent enough to live that lifestyle but not to also build up a safety net.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Indeed. Though personally I feel that people should build up to such lifestyles with a safety wedge (by which I mean those who have a big house/car/holidays). Financial management is a key #skillforlife that isn't often taught, in schools or Scouting, and is often most needed by those whose parents are affluent enough to live that lifestyle but not to also build up a safety net.
    I think the point is, it doesn't really matter what kind of safety wedge you have these days, it could be wiped out in an instant. People are being given no choice but to live a lot closer to the edge than they otherwise might, due to circumstances outwith their control.

    Living on the never-never is aspiration these days, as encouraged by the current system... You can't tell people to be aspirational and build a better life without expecting them to take any risks. Everything is a risk these days - financially I mean...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think the point is, it doesn't really matter what kind of safety wedge you have these days, it could be wiped out in an instant. People are being given no choice but to live a lot closer to the edge than they otherwise might, due to circumstances outwith their control.

    Living on the never-never is aspiration these days, as encouraged by the current system... You can't tell people to be aspirational and build a better life without expecting them to take any risks. Everything is a risk these days - financially I mean...
    I recall, when staying with a friend in the US, we discussed the "fear" that staff had of their employers, and I mean fear, not respect. He included himself in that assessment. "The way it works for the average Joe, here in the states is like this. You work to earn the dough to pay for your home, your clothes, your food, your health, esentially your work gives you the ability to maintain your family. It doesn't matter whether you own a farm or rent an apartment, if things go wrong you essentially have 30 days before you are on the street because you can't pay your bills." (Obviously there are details that vary the period).

    Here in the UK we are not quite at that level of desperation, if you play your cards right you have a year before you start to hit the skids big time.

    People are more risk averse than they were, corporates are hugely more risk averse, people are now aware of and are more prepared to take legal action in the event of an "accident". I would say that you send your child to us we will introduce them to adventure with a minimal actual riak but perhaps a higher perceived risk. Yes we play with fire, but look at how we do it before you say it is too risky.
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think the point is, it doesn't really matter what kind of safety wedge you have these days, it could be wiped out in an instant. People are being given no choice but to live a lot closer to the edge than they otherwise might, due to circumstances outwith their control.

    Living on the never-never is aspiration these days, as encouraged by the current system... You can't tell people to be aspirational and build a better life without expecting them to take any risks. Everything is a risk these days - financially I mean...
    If you don't have one, you have way of dealing with a financial shock. If you do, you at least have an opportunity to manage the situation; it is recommended by experts to have 3-6 months of essential spending (ie. rent/mortgage and bills) saved in an instant-access account at all times.

    I fundamentally disagree that living on debt is "aspirational" nowadays. It may have been back pre-financial crash, but it certainly isn't now. Indeed, living on debt is heavily linked to contributing to anxiety and other mental health conditions.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    I fundamentally disagree that living on debt is "aspirational" nowadays. It may have been back pre-financial crash, but it certainly isn't now. Indeed, living on debt is heavily linked to contributing to anxiety and other mental health conditions.
    I think that you are right in the latter part but the debt is part of being aspirational - debt includes mortgage and car loans.
    Ewan Scott

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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I recall, when staying with a friend in the US, we discussed the "fear" that staff had of their employers, and I mean fear, not respect. He included himself in that assessment. "The way it works for the average Joe, here in the states is like this. You work to earn the dough to pay for your home, your clothes, your food, your health, esentially your work gives you the ability to maintain your family. It doesn't matter whether you own a farm or rent an apartment, if things go wrong you essentially have 30 days before you are on the street because you can't pay your bills." (Obviously there are details that vary the period).

    Here in the UK we are not quite at that level of desperation, if you play your cards right you have a year before you start to hit the skids big time.

    People are more risk averse than they were, corporates are hugely more risk averse, people are now aware of and are more prepared to take legal action in the event of an "accident". I would say that you send your child to us we will introduce them to adventure with a minimal actual riak but perhaps a higher perceived risk. Yes we play with fire, but look at how we do it before you say it is too risky.
    I think you hugely overestimate how many people live one month from the edge. We have similar equality stats as the US does. I can't find recent stats, but in 2016 something like 1 in every 3 families were 1 pay packet away from not being able to pay the bills. I can't imagine that has improved...

    According to Shelter (more recently), over 1000 families become homeless each month. I don't suppose it matters how big that home is. If you can no longer pay for it, you'd be out on your ear - I suspect that's an English/Welsh figure. The law differs slightly in Scotland, I think our stats are only marginally less worse...

    I think there are a lot of people who while not desperate now, would be after a 30 or 60 days with out a job.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I think that you are right in the latter part but the debt is part of being aspirational - debt includes mortgage and car loans.
    Those are secured loans, however - so there is an asset that can repay the capital loan owed.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Those are secured loans, however - so there is an asset that can repay the capital loan owed.
    Fine for the entities who hold the loans, not really much help for the people who lose their homes and vehicles.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Fine for the entities who hold the loans, not really much help for the people who lose their homes and vehicles.
    It's also a lot more hassle for the lender to repossess an asset than demand a cash payment, so they're a lot more likely to agree reduced repayments if its likely to be a short-term cash-flow issue.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Those are secured loans, however - so there is an asset that can repay the capital loan owed.
    Not really much help if you lose your home after your insurance runs out. A secured loan is of benefit to the lender.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    It's also a lot more hassle for the lender to repossess an asset than demand a cash payment, so they're a lot more likely to agree reduced repayments if its likely to be a short-term cash-flow issue.
    They've also been known to foreclose if they see more profit in going down that route...

    You're very much held to the mercy of whatever marketing trend happens to be in the ascendancy with the lender.

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