Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: boys and girl guides

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    90
    Thanks
    116
    Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts

    boys and girl guides

    Just read this

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/16/boy-7...girl-10357623/

    AFAIK The Girl Guides have their membership rules (like Scouts do) and if you don't meet them, then tough you can'y join.

    What does concerm me somewaht is the notion of asking YP to identify themselves as "boy" or "girl" at such a young age which probably causes more issues down the line.

    But hey i'm an old **rt that doesn't get all this modern gender fluidity
    Dave Ralphs
    Yarnton Scout Group (Treasurer)
    DofE Advisor & District Exec Member - Oxford Spires District
    http://yarntonscouts.org.uk/

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    95
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 43 Times in 24 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    Just read this

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/16/boy-7...girl-10357623/

    AFAIK The Girl Guides have their membership rules (like Scouts do) and if you don't meet them, then tough you can'y join.

    What does concerm me somewaht is the notion of asking YP to identify themselves as "boy" or "girl" at such a young age which probably causes more issues down the line.

    But hey i'm an old **rt that doesn't get all this modern gender fluidity
    Yes - and if he imagines joining Rainbows will be all theatre outings and craft, he may well find it otherwise anyway.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to fenris For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (17-07-2019)

  4. #3
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    12,218
    Thanks
    1,850
    Thanked 3,336 Times in 1,438 Posts
    normally i think the parents in these cases are nuts and spoiling for a fight but in this case, the mum seems perfectly sensible.

    His friends are girls, his friends joined the rainbows, he wants to join with his friends... she refuses to do any Mermaids-type stuff which is good (IMO)

    If he has an older brother, she probably knows that beavers etc is open to girls so it would be logical to think that rainbows would be open to boys.

    It's a shame that certain things are associated with girls... (ever seen the body on a male ballet dancer? i dare you to call him girly!) and hopefully society will carry on the path it is taking where activities are less associated with boys and girls.

    nothing really to add to this story... it is a shame that the path the guides have taken pushes boys to identifying as girls if the programme appeals to them. (i did pottery painting with my son once... how many plates do i paint before i am gender-fluid?)
    Last edited by big chris; 17-07-2019 at 01:53 PM.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to big chris For This Useful Post:

    ASLChris (17-07-2019),dralphs (17-07-2019)

  6. #4
    Senior Member BalooNav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    S Glos.
    Posts
    682
    Thanks
    245
    Thanked 91 Times in 58 Posts
    I think Girl Guides will find increasing public pressure, or at least need to defend itself more publicly with their stance on membership. It may have its legal exemption but given how society is moving I suspect more parents will be more readily to make a public outcry in these situations. I imagine there are a good number of parents (and probably most of their leaders?) who like and will defend the ‘girl-only’ stance. GG seem committed to their policy, so it may need to get better comms and messaging out to defend - better still actively sell – its stance to avoid more stories like this. Or doi they just ignore them all? Issue a set statement confirming the position and their legal exemption, then say no more publicly. Of course, if they ever did change to accepting both boys and girls that would have a major knock on effect for Scouting; or would that be the time for a merger.

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    2,326
    Thanks
    450
    Thanked 524 Times in 323 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BalooNav View Post
    I think Girl Guides will find increasing public pressure, or at least need to defend itself more publicly with their stance on membership. It may have its legal exemption but given how society is moving I suspect more parents will be more readily to make a public outcry in these situations. I imagine there are a good number of parents (and probably most of their leaders?) who like and will defend the ‘girl-only’ stance. GG seem committed to their policy, so it may need to get better comms and messaging out to defend - better still actively sell – its stance to avoid more stories like this. Or doi they just ignore them all? Issue a set statement confirming the position and their legal exemption, then say no more publicly. Of course, if they ever did change to accepting both boys and girls that would have a major knock on effect for Scouting; or would that be the time for a merger.
    Really? With more girls in Guides than Boys AND Girls in Scouts I hardly think that change is necessary, imminent, or likely to be welcomed. That's it really, Guiding is for girls not boys, sorry mate.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RisingStar For This Useful Post:

    fenris (18-07-2019),shiftypete (17-07-2019)

  9. #6
    Senior Member Shaun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dewsbury, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,039
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 137 Times in 94 Posts
    I find two things ironic here:
    1. The assertion that dancing singing and theatre is for girls enforcing gender stereotypes on the activities.
    2. Expecting that a girls only activity that does ‘girly’ things be open to boys.

    I would suspect that is she looks around she will find a Beaver Colony that undertakes the activities she wants her child to do.





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Shaun

    SL
    Hanging Heaton Scout Group

  10. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,006
    Thanks
    2,675
    Thanked 2,004 Times in 1,267 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    I find two things ironic here:
    1. The assertion that dancing singing and theatre is for girls enforcing gender stereotypes on the activities.
    2. Expecting that a girls only activity that does ‘girly’ things be open to boys.

    I would suspect that is she looks around she will find a Beaver Colony that undertakes the activities she wants her child to do.
    Not with his friends, though, unless they too move.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Neil Williams For This Useful Post:

    BigBadBaloo (17-07-2019)

  12. #8
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Bracknell, Berkshire
    Posts
    4,509
    Thanks
    1,507
    Thanked 892 Times in 566 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Not with his friends, though, unless they too move.
    Exactly! Back in the days when I was Cub leader, we had a huge waiting list for our Beaver colonies (and to a much lesser extent for the Cub packs) and try as we might we could not persuade the parents to send Janet or John to the nearby neighbouring colonies/packs, which had spaces, as their child wanted to "do" Scouting with his or her friends!
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  13. #9
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,260
    Thanks
    917
    Thanked 633 Times in 422 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    normally i think the parents in these cases are nuts and spoiling for a fight but in this case, the mum seems perfectly sensible.

    His friends are girls, his friends joined the rainbows, he wants to join with his friends... she refuses to do any Mermaids-type stuff which is good (IMO)

    If he has an older brother, she probably knows that beavers etc is open to girls so it would be logical to think that rainbows would be open to boys.

    It's a shame that certain things are associated with girls... (ever seen the body on a male ballet dancer? i dare you to call him girly!) and hopefully society will carry on the path it is taking where activities are less associated with boys and girls.

    nothing really to add to this story... it is a shame that the path the guides have taken pushes boys to identifying as girls if the programme appeals to them. (i did pottery painting with my son once... how many plates do i paint before i am gender-fluid?)
    I think its good that she isn't pushing her child to have a "label".
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
    Web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.

    Social media
    Twitter: @WNScouts / @9NWScouts
    Facebook: /WNScouts
    Instagram: @WNScouts

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ASLChris For This Useful Post:

    BalooNav (18-07-2019),Kev (18-07-2019)

  15. #10
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    12,218
    Thanks
    1,850
    Thanked 3,336 Times in 1,438 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    I think its good that she isn't pushing her child to have a "label".
    i hope my post said that, i absolutely agree.

  16. #11
    Escouts Team MikeJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Gillingham, Kent
    Posts
    3,824
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BalooNav View Post
    I think Girl Guides will find increasing public pressure, or at least need to defend itself more publicly with their stance on membership. It may have its legal exemption but given how society is moving I suspect more parents will be more readily to make a public outcry in these situations. I imagine there are a good number of parents (and probably most of their leaders?) who like and will defend the ‘girl-only’ stance. GG seem committed to their policy, so it may need to get better comms and messaging out to defend - better still actively sell – its stance to avoid more stories like this. Or doi they just ignore them all? Issue a set statement confirming the position and their legal exemption, then say no more publicly. Of course, if they ever did change to accepting both boys and girls that would have a major knock on effect for Scouting; or would that be the time for a merger.
    Girlguiding ask their members regularly if they want to change and the answer has always so far been no.
    Mike Jury
    Escouts Team
    Ecamp 2009
    Radio Amateur (M0MFF)

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MikeJ For This Useful Post:

    Epona (18-07-2019),fenris (18-07-2019),RisingStar (18-07-2019)

  18. #12
    Assistant Beaver Leader Keith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Ingleby Barwick, England
    Posts
    3,740
    Thanks
    135
    Thanked 124 Times in 88 Posts
    Girl Guiding rules i.e. he isn't a girl, nor does he identify as a girl, bars him from joining - that's the rules they've made. I can totally see why they don't want to allow boys in, their ethos is different and it's very rare that boys would want to join. They have their own programme which is tailored to their membership.

    Being girly doesn't make you identify as a girl, just like being a tom boy doesn't make you identify as being a boy - there is a gender fluidity there and at such a young age you can't expect every child to know or understand whether they identify as a boy or a girl if it might be different to the body they were born in.

    Maybe Girl Guiding should open up to allow boys that would be interested in doing their programme, which is aimed at their membership (girls), or maybe not - that's a decision for them as an organisation.

    In Scouting we've been a mixed sex organisation for years, but fundamentally the programme hasn't made a shift to be "girly" as that wouldn't be what our members would want - they join us because they like our programme.

    And we should remember that Girls have always wanted to join Scouts, but weren't allowed to, which was why BP founded Guiding.
    Keith "Hawkeye"
    (Acting) Beaver Scout Section Leader (Woodbadge)
    Group Executive Committee Member
    Group Badge Secretary
    Group Web Manager
    Fundraising Co-ordinator - Group Family Camp 2018
    1st Ingleby Barwick (St Francis) Scout Group



    https://www.inglebybarwickscouts.org.uk


    WE NEED MORE ADULT VOLUNTEERS!
    Volunteer at 1st Ingleby Barwick Scout Group
    Section Leaders, Assistant Section Leaders, Sectional Assistants, Occasional Helpers, etc.


  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Keith For This Useful Post:

    Epona (18-07-2019),RisingStar (18-07-2019)

  20. #13
    Senior Member Shaun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dewsbury, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,039
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 137 Times in 94 Posts
    I don’t think guiding would open it’s doors to boys, as they would then need to open the door to male leaders.
    There is a deeply entrenched anti-male sentiment in how they as an organisation treat males.
    Male adult helpers aren’t allowed to sleep in the same building as the girls.
    You still see questions asked about having to keep the girls inside if they are on a site that has scouts camping, in case they bump in to each other.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Shaun

    SL
    Hanging Heaton Scout Group

  21. #14
    ASL Kev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Hwicce
    Posts
    3,746
    Thanks
    372
    Thanked 745 Times in 544 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    You still see questions asked about having to keep the girls inside if they are on a site that has scouts camping, in case they bump in to each other.
    There were loads of Girl Guides on the Strategy camp (which is open to Scouts and Guides), to the point where there were grumblings that by getting their bookings in early the Guides had limited the places for Scouts.

  22. #15
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,643
    Thanks
    1,544
    Thanked 2,182 Times in 1,272 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    There were loads of Girl Guides on the Strategy camp (which is open to Scouts and Guides), to the point where there were grumblings that by getting their bookings in early the Guides had limited the places for Scouts.
    When what they mean is "tsh, those organised people, taking away opportunities from the less organised".

    Or are they saying that the guides have a secret pact to book on events nice and early so less stinky old scouts come?
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ianw For This Useful Post:

    ASLChris (18-07-2019),dragonhhjh (18-07-2019)

Similar Threads

  1. Girl Guides - Finally go Co-Ed... Sort of...
    By pa_broon74 in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 01-02-2017, 10:43 AM
  2. 100 Years of Girl Guides
    By banderlog in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 04-08-2010, 11:39 PM
  3. My first girl!!!
    By jen in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 13-07-2010, 01:45 PM
  4. Bullying, or just boys being boys?
    By AdrianP in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 06-03-2008, 08:43 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •