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Thread: Bronze DofE Failure

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    Bronze DofE Failure

    Hi I'm looking for a bit of advice as I know some of you may have experience of this
    My son (14) did his bronze DofE a couple of weekends ago

    The group got lost and arrived nearly 2 hours late - when they arrived at the end point some of the group were quite emotional. They gave all their equipment back and left with us parents - totally forgetting about the debrief (I don't know where the assessor was - somewhere else in the car park I guess)

    I understand that this could result in them all getting failed as it's one of the 20 points
    My son is distraught that this could happen as soon as he was signed up he rushed to do all the sections and was pretty much the first in his year to finish everything bar the hike.

    He totally accepts equal responsibility
    My questions

    Can this be salvaged - as they still need to do the presentation
    Would a debrief in writing be acceptable and if it was - what if not all the group did this
    Does the whole group have to pass, or can they pass individuals out of the group as some haven't even started skills, volunteering etc

    I know it's not the end of his DofE journey but it's such a shame that the oversight could result in the whole year being wasted as it's too late to sign up for any other qualifying expeditions so wouldn't be able to do another walk until next summer

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    I would be amazed if some way wasn't found to sort this. Gobsmacked.

    He needs to talk to his D of E assessor/advisor, see how the land lies, and if something needs fixing, how it can be fixed. It's down to them at the end of the day.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

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    Can you get hold of the assessor and bring everyone together for the debrief now? I’d argue the assessor should have been making sure they were there for it to happen. Also at bronze DofE the debrief replaces the presentation so possibly if they are doing a presentation and the assessor is involved then that solves it. Best to try to talk to the assessor to see what they say.

    As an aside (and not much use for your situation) we’ve decided our Bronze teams will do presentations as a way of building skills for the silver level. We’re not going to be (very) critical of them but it’s a chance to get them building skills they will need later on.

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    shiftypete (18-07-2019)

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    As an ex-assessor myself, I can quite understand that a very long delay - however unfortunate - might result in my disappearing without full debrief, they're volunteers with other lives like the rest of us.

    As others have said I can't believe that the assessor won't allow the situation to be recovered - if he even requires a debrief at all. Best to get the local instructor/leader to liaise with him/her.

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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    If it comes to it your son could do another expedition with a different team and even a different organisation - no need to wait to next Summer.

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    Thanks for your comments

    We (the parents) were gathered just off a rural car park awaiting their arrival with one of the volunteers who took the equipment.
    The assessor must have been sat nearby in the car park as lots of other groups were there doing their DofE. Ours was just really late back

    I've spoken to the leader and the group are allowed to send the debrief answers to the assessor via Email (which my son has done)
    They still need to do a presentation in September.

    From what the leader said - the assessor needs the information to write the report, so they can pass that section.

    From my understanding DofE needs to be done by October so I can't do anything until September and the presentation to find out out pass or fail on that section (I didn't even realise there was one needed) by which time it would probably be too late to find another group to go with

    With any luck when my son uploads his expedition information we will be able to see if the assessor has written notes, and it goes to completed!

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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    He has until he is 25 to complete DofE.

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    He has until he is 25 to complete DofE.
    Yes but the D of E expedition season ends in October each year

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    I am an assessor at Bronze and Silver level.

    Sorry for your sons situation, it could probably have been handled better. As others have said we are all volunteers and the assessor may have had places to go and couldn't wait that long, but had it been me i would have been talking to the supervisor and between us have come up a satisfactory solution. One possibility being to meet the team earlier (lunchtime) and debrief then or meet up afterwards at there next section meeting.

    Everyone talks about passing/failing but in reality whilst they have to meet the 20 conditions being late at the finish or getting lost isn't an instant fail as there could be many reasons why this could happen. Sometimes footpaths shown on maps have been ploughed over or a gate/sign is missing and its not their fault at all. Or maybe they simply estimated that they walked quicker than they actually do. At bronze level you have to be realistic as to the abilities of a team and conditions. Getting lost isn't a reason to "fail" its more about how they remedy the situation and get back on track.

    A good assessor will take this into account and if a team is struggling will raise with the supervisor and come up with options to get the expedition back on track. Only in the worst case after consulting the supervisor would isuggest the expedition was converted to a practice and the assessed deferred.

    They obviously sorted it out as they got to the finish albeit later than planned.

    I gather my opinion of a team over the whole assessment period, pre-expedition meeting, the start, the campsite, the actual hiking and the debrief. So the fact they are late and miss the debrief isn't a major concern, it can be done in other ways and quite likely is unlikely to change my recommendation.

    A presentation at bronze level isn't now mandatory and can be given in various ways but it still worth doing and part of the shared experience.

    The October date being mentioned is just for the "season" when expeditions can be run, they should normally be between 1st April and end of October (in the UK)
    Last edited by dralphs; 19-07-2019 at 10:42 AM.
    Dave Ralphs
    Yarnton Scout Group (Treasurer)
    DofE Advisor & District Exec Member - Oxford Spires District
    http://yarntonscouts.org.uk/

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Yes but the D of E expedition season ends in October each year
    No it doesn’t. Expeditions can happen outside the March to October (see condition 10). Really depends on your risk assessment and local weather conditions. Considering over the years we have had warm sunny conditions in October and snow in March the “expedition season” is flexible.

    In this case as they’ve already completed their expedition and what they are doing is the post activity reports there is no real reason for an end date of October (apart from actually getting it done and not letting it drift on).

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    In this case as they’ve already completed their expedition and what they are doing is the post activity reports there is no real reason for an end date of October (apart from actually getting it done and not letting it drift on).
    The expedition season bit was in case of the worst case scenario of them having to do another expeidtion (very unlikely I know).

    Condition 10 says
    Expeditions will usually take place between the end of March and the end of October.
    So ok yes its possible to have expeditions outside of the March to end of October period but its certainly unusual to do so. The usual argument against expeditions past October isn't just the weather is worse but how early it gets dark, meaning far less leeway if anything goes wrong resulting in a delay such as the one experienced on this original expedition. Navigating in the dark or even dusk is far more challenging than in the day light.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Anyway, if it's a school, fat chance they'll be failed.</cynic mode>
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Anyway, if it's a school, fat chance they'll be failed.</cynic mode>
    I don't have much knowledge about this, but my daughter's school is exceptionally draconian and I know of a number of kids that have failed their DofE for reasons that I thought were more than a little unfair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Anyway, if it's a school, fat chance they'll be failed.</cynic mode>
    Scouts accusing Schools of variable award standards really is pot / kettle / black.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Scouts accusing Schools of variable award standards really is pot / kettle / black.
    "variable award standards" = "local best practice"


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