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Thread: Moving towards compulsory youth data on OSM

  1. #31
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    To my mind it's also a scandal that the Compass issue has been quietly sidelined in favour of trumpeting the new website.

    We should be told how and why our money was wasted and what exactly has been done since to (hopefully) stop it from happening again.

    We don't even know for certain the exact amount of the loss.

    What is the future of Compass and how much more of our money will it hoover up?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush
    OSM from a system point of view isn't the greatest and it's evolving over recent time means it has gone backwards in a few key things, mobile for example is now AWFUL, and something that is fundamental to OSM.
    Interesting that you say mobile is awful - I quite like it.

    On a wider point, does it matter that TSA has two different systems, with Compass being basically an HR system (which it actually does reasonably well, and it's nicer to use than some other HR/ERP type systems, most notably SAP) and OSM being a youth member management system?

    How many large[1] companies use the same system for their ERP as they do for their helpdesk? Almost none, I'd venture, and those which do are probably using a SAP based helpdesk tool which is awful.

    [1] Remember we may not have many paid employees, but if you consider that in terms of software to manage them volunteers are basically employees - if you consider everyone from an OH to Tim Kidd as an employee we are quite possibly the largest company wholly operating within the UK.

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  4. #33
    Escouts Founder Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Why if I'm looking at an event that goes across sections can I not get the In Touch details for everyone on the event without switching sections?
    Why do I need to set up badge requirements in each section for each event? Why can't I do that once? Then again after the event, I need to apply the badge updates to every section separately.
    Maybe I'm the odd one out, and it's not really designed for me, so I just have to put up with it, as there's no commercial imperative to make it easier for me.
    Ed was a section leader, he wrote it to help himself as a section leader. Its greatest strength for section leaders is also its greatest flaw.
    Like I say, it's good, but for me, it's not great. Whether it's possible to write something that's great for me, and also great for everyone else, is a valid question.
    I hope OSM carries on and continues to be successful, but I don't think it's the universal panacea some paint it as.
    Yes exactly, with 9 sections in my group, I find all the swapping about a real PITA. It fails misserably at taking the Group perspective.

    That said its a tool we wouldnt be without it and are now doing online payments

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    OSM from a system point of view isn't the greatest and it's evolving over recent time means it has gone backwards in a few key things, mobile for example is now AWFUL, and something that is fundamental to OSM.
    You can still use OSM Anywhere for the offline functionality. At least, I do.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    OSM only succeeded because Compass failed. It wasn't great when it first started as it was purely knocked up as a gimmick for the tender to HQ...
    OSM was a success long before Compass was forced into our hands. When it was announced that Compass was coming we were already using OSM. At that time OSM was 100% working and we chose to use it because it had advantages to Sections. It still does (although I personally find the added features less compelling to the detriment of the core use). All sections want to use it. As a Group tool I have never needed to administer an event in OSM across all sections. I don't have any issue with overview with my 4 sections. When Compass finally arrived it was clear it was an HQ tool - we didn't really need it, no-one wanted to use it. Now, as a Group, we rarely use it and only the GSL and Group Admin use it - I am not even sure if our Leaders have a log-in for it.

    Cost - the cost of OSM is negligible for the functionality it gives - certainly the Subs collection and management pays for itself. It is suggested the membership would protest if OSM subscription was forced upon us - well we had no choice in stumping up for the 2 million+ that Compass has cost the movement - our capitation has gone up to pay for that debacle. When I analyse what it costs to run our Group the big costs are Capitation and Insurance - both controlled by TSA. I do question what "value" we get from both. Certainly when we did a due diligence of addressing insurance costs we found being outside of the TSA insurance scheme to save us immensely.

  9. #36
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    I agree - we were using OSM long before Compass. There was a proposal for OSM to fill the requirement for which Compass was later built, and the Scout Association declined it. However, it was based on adapting the pre-existing OSM to meet the additional requirements.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

  10. #37
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKRSL View Post
    I agree - we were using OSM long before Compass. There was a proposal for OSM to fill the requirement for which Compass was later built, and the Scout Association declined it. However, it was based on adapting the pre-existing OSM to meet the additional requirements.
    Again rewriting history there, the procurement process for what became Compass was started before OSM was a serious thing and was being developed behind the scenes at the same time OSM was being developed whilst in active use. Unfortunatly it was just bad timing really if Ed had started OSM just a bit earlier and or TSA wasn't so far down the line of procuring its own product then it could well have ended up with TSA comissioning/adopting OSM but as it was OSM was basically still a bedroom project that couldn't have really been seriously conisdered for use instead. With hindsight obviously it would have been great had TSA taken the risk on OSM but if OSM had gone tits up they would have had egg on their face, as it turned out they instead got egg on their face by paying a supposedly reputable company to develop Compass.

    You only have to look back on the threads on this very forum to prove this given Ed Jellard who developed OSM started promoting it here.
    https://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/thr...-Scout-Manager

    And in his own words
    Quote Originally Posted by EdJellard View Post
    I did try to talk to the SA, but I came along after the Getting IT Right team had got underway. From the SA's point of view, I guess they wouldn't want a system developed by a random leader to be used by everyone. I'm now in the weird position of being in the GIR team (so I can hopefully pass some of the knowledge I've gained from developing OSM), and developing OSM, so I can't say much more!!!
    Last edited by shiftypete; 27-09-2019 at 10:41 PM.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  11. #38
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    Sorry if I've misled anyone. I suspect that your detailed knowledge is better than mine. However, as I read that thread, OSM was launched in its first public form in early 2011, just as the team was getting together to think about requirements for what became Compass?

    Compass actually launched to Groups at the end of 2014.

    Am I reading my history correctly?
    SL, 11th Hitchin

  12. #39
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Yes as I say it was, the problem was that OSM was just a hobby project for Ed at that time, even when he started charging for OSM in around Nov 2011 he was still only doing OSM as a hobby. How could TSA possibly have considered that as a viable thing to pump millions of pounds into?

    As I say as it turns out they would probably have ended up in a much better position with a much better product (it couldn't get much worse than the Compass when it launched) if they had but that's hindsight for you.
    Last edited by shiftypete; 27-09-2019 at 10:48 PM.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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