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Thread: 100 Years Old

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    Scout Leader bellshillscouts's Avatar
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    100 Years Old

    My scout group celebrates it's 100th birthday today!
    https://www.1stbellshillscouts100.org.uk/

    We're looking forward to a year of celebrations, including a birthday party to kick it off on Friday night.

    Neil

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    Sounds good.

    Which makes me wonder, how does one find out how old one's scout group is anyway?

    Pretty sure ours isn't as old as yours, but it must be getting on a bit now...

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    In compass your group will have a "date registered"...how accurate that is I don't know. I'd expect early records were...scant...or now lost. One of ours has 24 June 1907. Impressive.
    Ian Wilkins
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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Congrataltions on reaching 100.

    Our Group was formed on 15 June 1933 (something Compass actually has recorded accurately as it matches the documentation we hold) so is still just under 14 years off reaching 100

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Sounds good.

    Which makes me wonder, how does one find out how old one's scout group is anyway?

    Pretty sure ours isn't as old as yours, but it must be getting on a bit now...
    The oldest groups are 1927, or technically the 1928 census (I may be a year out on these) is that is when the group system was introduced.

    Prior to that primary organisation unit was the Troop and there is a list of about 40 with a claim to being the first but it is impossible to actually say who was first, and that's before it gets complicated with things like CLBs transferring across. https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...roops-fs295303

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Our old Group wasn't that old, I think about 1972 - but it was not the first in the village. It is difficult to track down the original because there is little or no ephemera surviving, and there was not only a change of Districts but Counties and I found that Gilwell could not commit the time to tacking down groups with no known District or exact County details - not surprising.

    I did find the source of a group in the adjacent village, Scissett, members of whom were boys in 1924, at The Knights of the Round Table, camping as Scouts in 1927. Some of those boys were involved in the founding of the Clayton West Scout Group. I'd guess that lots of Groups may be younger, but have a heritage that predates their start date.

    At a stretch, I could say that our Navigator group has a heritage that goes back to 1924, in the same way as the Monarchy can be traced back to Saxon times...
    Ewan Scott

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    Scout Leader bellshillscouts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Sounds good.

    Which makes me wonder, how does one find out how old one's scout group is anyway?

    Pretty sure ours isn't as old as yours, but it must be getting on a bit now...
    Well, it seems we might be older but we've already had a false start so we're sticking to 100 now.
    In 2013 I contacted Gilwell to ask when we were first registered and they said 1948, so we duly went ahead and had a 65 badge made.
    We wanted to throw a party and invite former leaders so we asked for that information.
    We're a Scottish group so I also contacted Scottish HQ to ask for the leaders and Scottish came back to say we were actually registered in 1919.
    Fast forward 6 years and we're now 100 instead of 71!

    However, in our search for Centenary memorabilia, we've searched through old local newspaper archives and recently discovered stories from 1908 mentioning our scout troop.
    So, we could be older but we've got a year planned and we're sticking to that just now!

    Anyway, if you want to know, there's a really good Heritage Service at TSA plus, Scottish HQ can help.
    https://scouts.org.uk/about-us/herit...itage-service/

    Neil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Rover View Post
    The oldest groups are 1927, or technically the 1928 census (I may be a year out on these) is that is when the group system was introduced.

    Prior to that primary organisation unit was the Troop and there is a list of about 40 with a claim to being the first but it is impossible to actually say who was first, and that's before it gets complicated with things like CLBs transferring across. https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...roops-fs295303
    1928 was when our group was registered.
    Our Cup Pack was registered in 1923.

    Neil

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    how does one find out how old one's scout group is anyway?
    Our Group dates from 1930, but I had come across a newspaper article re its formation which alluded to any earlier Scout Troop in the village (which had opened/closed a couple of times). I contacted the heritage centre which although helpful had little information on a Troop prior to 1930. But they did give me a few pointers and a couple of snippets of what they had. A year later, having searched through old Parish magazines, local newspapers (digitised/online) and speaking to old leaders/local historians, I have now pinpointed April 1913 as the date a Scout Troop was first formed in the village. I’ve also found photos of the first ever adult leader, and identified all the meeting places from 1913 onwards. Its been an interesting project, if only from the social history angle

    Below is part of the email from the heritage team about how things were done in the day;

    Prior to 1919 all registration was done within the Local Association / District; the District would then send a return to HQ. A District return might only state the number of Troops and how many Scouts, but not the title of the Troop. Any change to District boundaries would mean a new list and these changes would result in a new return. These would have included the Troop title. The Headquarters record of Troops and Packs was carried out from 1919 until 1928 when the Group system we recognise today was introduced. They would also record changes of Title and sponsorship.

    There is a HQ gazette which might record warrants issued/cancelled. They can send you a copy of the Group’s Registration Form. There is also a record card of leaders but its release to you might be controlled by GDPR, depending on how old the info is
    Last edited by bigcheese; 01-10-2019 at 10:33 PM.

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    Baloo KoopaCooper's Avatar
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    Well I can see on Compass that our Group was supposedly registered on 1 October 1919....which is utter balderdash and piffle. xDDD

    Our Group (or at least our Troop, obviously Beavers and Wolf Cubs/Cub Scouts didn't exist back then anyway) was actually registered sometime in 1908, and claims to be one of the oldest still in continuous existence.

    We even have some of the minute books for the Patrol Leaders Councils held during the Great War...! (the PLs of course were running the Troop in the absence of the Leaders who were at the Front...)
    1988 - 1990: 4th Streatham Sea Scouts (PMLO), Beaver
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    Hmmm...

    I don't think I can see that part of Compass.

    That said. I'm in there as an assistant section leader, and all my assistant section leaders are in there as section leaders.

    It does not bode well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Sounds good.

    Which makes me wonder, how does one find out how old one's scout group is anyway?

    Pretty sure ours isn't as old as yours, but it must be getting on a bit now...
    With difficulty if, like Ewan says, your Troop / Group moved Districts / Counties.

    Other than that HQ do have a pretty good archive of Groups and I got copies of a lot of ours many years ago.

    It helped that I was able to give them information gleaned from local newspapers.

    Before the late 1920's there were no Groups so there are none registered, but you may have evidence from other sources that Troops existed.

    For instance our current oldest Group was registered in 1929 (the District was formed in 1930). I have however a couple of photos from 1912 showing a troop associated with that church - may be a different group.

    I also found newspaper items about Scouts long before the District was formed but were then in a wider District Groups or troops that were never listed at HQ in their search but they could be under a different District which I was not aware of then.

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    Oh, found it.

    29 January 1934.

    I remember it well...



    (I think we have very limited records to that end. Notes from the forties and fifties alluding to a thirties start. Our hall was built in 1957, Scouts met either in the school or church up to then.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoopaCooper View Post
    Well I can see on Compass that our Group was supposedly registered on 1 October 1919....which is utter balderdash and piffle. xDDD

    Our Group (or at least our Troop, obviously Beavers and Wolf Cubs/Cub Scouts didn't exist back then anyway) was actually registered sometime in 1908, and claims to be one of the oldest still in continuous existence.

    We even have some of the minute books for the Patrol Leaders Councils held during the Great War...! (the PLs of course were running the Troop in the absence of the Leaders who were at the Front...)
    Your Group cannot possibly have been registered in 1919 as there were no Groups until 1928. Before that all Sections were stand alone. Your Troop could not be registered in 1908 with what was then Imperial HQ as registrations were then done by the Local Association. (District).

    That does not mean they were not formed then, but they certainly were not registered with HQ as a Troop or a Group.

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    Baloo KoopaCooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    Your Group cannot possibly have been registered in 1919 as there were no Groups until 1928. Before that all Sections were stand alone. Your Troop could not be registered in 1908 with what was then Imperial HQ as registrations were then done by the Local Association. (District).

    That does not mean they were not formed then, but they certainly were not registered with HQ as a Troop or a Group.
    Ahhh...but I never said that the Troop was registered with HQ in 1908, just that it was registered, with whomever was dealing with registrations at the time (as you say, the local District).

    And yeah, that's what Compass says, 1919, which I knew was rubbish (I think quite a lot of historic info about Groups was added into Compass without proper checking beforehand). xD
    1988 - 1990: 4th Streatham Sea Scouts (PMLO), Beaver
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    Our Group registration apparently dates from 1937 according to a plaque in the hall. However I'm intrigued by that as our first Queen Scout dates from 1943 (who then went on to be the Scout Leader that I did my time in Scouts under from around 1982 to 1987) which suggests a Scouting involvement before 1937. However its possible that was at another Troop in the area.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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