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Thread: OSM, district want read/write to events+badge records etc etc

  1. #1
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    OSM, district want read/write to events+badge records etc etc

    Recently had an email from district asking for access (read/write) to the events area of a sections OSM , as well as leaving the personal details section as editable, read access to badge records and so on.

    Not sure what to think as this stage, happy to let district to see but I have miss givings about letting people outside the group from creating events, which then trigger emails to parents etc and it does raise an alarm bell over data sharing


    Thoughts.....

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    No. End of.

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    Cant see a problem with read access and if they are able to create an event they should be able to share it with other sections allowing the sections to keep control ? Otherwise section leaders won't know what's going on ?
    I have had events shared with my section by others in the group and have not found out till asked a question by a parent district doing it would be a big pain

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    No. Just no. How on Earth could District justify needing read/write access to children's personal details, badge records, etc? (I bet it's so they could micromanage how many badges we're helping the kids earn - "Oh, your section aren't earning enough badges, perhaps you need to rethink your programme using Programmes Online at Scoutbase...?" Cue massive rolling of the eyes)

    They should already be able to create their event and then share it with groups/sections as they wish, without needing access to those groups/sections. Just create the event in their own account, and then use the "Share this event" button and select the name of another section in another group, send invitation to share. Job done. Then the other group's section gets the little red bell notifying them that info has been shared, and can choose to accept or reject.

    Sorry District, you're never getting access to children's records in my group. It'd surely be a MASSIVE breach of GDPR.
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    Theres also a deadline set as they want all this access in the next few days.
    As for OSm not all in the group use it at the full level, with at least one section only using it as a means to store basic member data ( name/address/DOB parent 1/parent 2 etc)
    As for events etc, we do what we can, and offer what we can, however if a group/section event takes place on ( for example) one weekend, then we will push this as opposed to a district event happening the following weekend, likewise some ecvents also require section leaders to be present, who may well not be available

    I always see badges ( especially the challenge badges) as a take it or leave it thing, not all Scouts will want to, or be motivated enough to get through it all as they often require a few extra bits to be done outside of Scouting

    As for leaving personal details as editable, i cant see why this is required, I was always under the impression that a youth members personal data (address/dob /parents info etc) should stay in the group, and go no further, with the exception of census - which from my understanding now only asks for numbers ( if i remember correctly) as aprt of data protection/GDPR as the Scout group is its own entity

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Nope. Not that it is an issue for me.

    This smells of an idea that was mooted a while back, where any activity run by any group could be open to applications from any other group. Similar to the idea of Explorers.

    Knowing how getting confirmation of numbers from within a group can be. Can you imagine the potential chaos of a cross-district availability of your section's climbing session?

    Why would they need the write ability on your area of OSM?

    This would be a ditch to die in, I think.
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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Absolutely no way I would agree to this. They could have read access to events if they must but no chance District would get read/write access to events as sorry but we retain the right not to puclicise District events if we haven't got the Leaders avaiaible to support our members attendance. It would cause GDPR issues to give them access to personal details as that is not legitimate interest IMHO which is the basis we use for holding the data and we state on our fiar procesessing notice that it won't be shared outside of our Group without further notification/permission.

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    Spoke with another leader in the group, and the plan is to just sit on it, and then if pushed to only give read access to the ADC's to programme and events and then see what happens.
    I've got a feeling the plan is for District to send invites out for events/activities, contact parents etc and bypass the group/sections

    Theres more to planning an event/camp than making sure it doesnt clash with someone else's event, you need to ensure leader/supervision levels, as well as several other factors, then theres the level of support from the YP and parents, how much would be overload? OSM is a very useful tool, however there is a risk of flooding peoples inboxes with various bits and bobs such as camp/event invites, badges awarded, subs payments due and so on we have enough trouble getting parents to notice information and respond as it is

    I've got no issue with releasing relevant data for a specific event, such as an activity day ( ie Derbyshire Scouts activation) although this is usually done by the parents filling in a form for that event and the YP taking the form to the event, or electronically ( filling in the details online ) on the basis that once the event is done any data that is not required is either destroyed or access removed.
    However what is being asked is for full data sharing whenever, whatever

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    I have an issue with read - they have no justification to have access to the data[1], therefore it would be a breach of GDPR to give it. End of.

    [1] Most notably the "sensitive personal data" e.g. medical/allergies you no doubt have on there, as we do. You need much stronger bases to share that data. Personally I would just re-collect for any District/County camp where it was needed.

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    Senior Member johnmcmahon's Avatar
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    No way. Absolutely not. On lots of levels this is wrong. GDPR as a starter ("they are all members of District so we have a right.....". No, that's not why the data was supplied. Go away and do the GDPR training).

    As has been said, I reserve the right to not inform the Scouts of an event if I cannot supply adequate Leaders to run it.

    A while back District wanted names and addresses as part of census data. I had Beaver1 to BeaverXXX, Cub1 to CubXXX etc and all resident at the church hall address. Had a "discussion" with the then DC about it and I refused to budge.

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    Read access only to certain areas but not personal details of YP, ie they can see overall numbers in sections but not much else
    Write access - NO
    Able to set up events in your group - just no.

    If they insist just say NO as under GDPR (and previous data protection legistlation) you and your exec as trustees are responsible for the data as a charity in your own right. District should know that and follow best practice regards GDPR etc.
    Should that data get splashed around everywhere guess who gets investigated? correct the Scout Group not District.

    I can understand them needing emergency contact details, allergies etc for a district camp or similar and when we have done similar in the past, district have set up a separate registration scheme that all participants completed and was then deleted after the event.
    Dave Ralphs
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    Assistant Beaver Leader Keith's Avatar
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    NO!

    Everyone's access needs to be appropriate for their role within the section.

    Ask them why they want access to these things - they simply do not need it.

    If district or anyone else outside of the group want to contact or access any information about members if your group or section, they need to go through the section leader.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    Read access only to certain areas but not personal details of YP, ie they can see overall numbers in sections but not much else
    If they cough up for OSM on your behalf, they get a dashboard which does just that

    He who pays the piper calls the tune. I think that's fair.

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    Hell no!

    There are events that district put on that we don't publicise to parents because we know we don't have the leaders to staff our attendance. Classic example being a forthcoming County jamboree - I know I'm away that weekend, one SA will have moved on with his son (with special needs) to Scouts which only leaves my ACSL. When this gets sent out to parents, they all sign up, how do I decide which of the 18 of them can be part of the 8 that can go with the ACSL? It might be that we offer controlled invites so that those who haven't had a chance to do this sort of thing yet get first option before we offer it to the rest.

    Fortunately I don't think our current DC wants to pick that fight and certainly doesn't have the spare time to micro manage like that.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  21. #15
    Man in a daft hat Hatman's Avatar
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    This is wrong at every level and the most likely outcome is a lot of trouble for your Group. Districts are always blameless, of course.

    Don't do it.

    Nigel
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