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Thread: To Akela or not?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    I don't think the promise, particuarly the non-religious version - "entails" anything (although i understand that some strong republicans would like to see the removal of reference to the queen)

    I think asking children to promise to do their best, to help other people, to keep the relevent section of the law, and to do their duty to their country is all entirely reasonable. It is a promise which they can make, and can, in simplistic terms at least, understand.

    Unlike a rather random reference to the Jungle Book. Yes I know there are historical reasons, but I suspect for today's kids they may as well be saying "Olaf we will do our best" or "Belle we will do our best" as to them the Jungle Book is a disney story.
    By 'all that it entails', I didn't only mean the words or intent - although I sort of do when it comes to swearing to do your duty to the Queen, I think a lot of people will think that's a bit weird - even if they aren't agnostic about the monarchy, as I more tend to be these days.

    It's more the recital of the promise as a mantra. I think parents love it for the usual reasons, I'm not sure it's so positively thought of outside our limited circles.

    Heck. If I had a quid for every time someone went dyb dyb dyb to me, and we don't even do that. I'm not even sure we ever did. I wouldn't be a millionaire, but I'd have more money than I currently do.

    They did remake the Jungle Book twice recently, so it's not that out of date. But yeah, Olaf or some other more up to date reference might be in order. Some character from Fortnite, although I believe our Scouts now think that's for babies.

    I have no clue, and relish demonstrating my ignorance of such things to my scouts. That said, last Thursday, one of my Scouts dabbed. He got pelters, even from me.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    By 'all that it entails', I didn't only mean the words or intent - although I sort of do when it comes to swearing to do your duty to the Queen, I think a lot of people will think that's a bit weird - even if they aren't agnostic about the monarchy, as I more tend to be these days.

    It's more the recital of the promise as a mantra. I think parents love it for the usual reasons, I'm not sure it's so positively thought of outside our limited circles.

    Heck. If I had a quid for every time someone went dyb dyb dyb to me, and we don't even do that. I'm not even sure we ever did. I wouldn't be a millionaire, but I'd have more money than I currently do.

    They did remake the Jungle Book twice recently, so it's not that out of date. But yeah, Olaf or some other more up to date reference might be in order. Some character from Fortnite, although I believe our Scouts now think that's for babies.

    I have no clue, and relish demonstrating my ignorance of such things to my scouts. That said, last Thursday, one of my Scouts dabbed. He got pelters, even from me.

    Speaking as a Humanist (lets just say non-religious) leader who took that oath, I don't really have a problem with the royalty bit in the promise. I mean if Liz turned up and asked me to do something I probably would! I'm always polite to the elderly!

    As for the dyb dyb dyb bit I believe it was in until some point in the 60's. A little while back I found a pdf of the Wolf Cubs Handbook by Baden-Powell and had a (not complete) read through it. Lets just say some of those traditions are best left behind but, if you didn't know, in the book the sixers would say dyb dyb dyb, as a short form of Do Your Best and the six would reply dob dob dob for Do Our Best. It was removed so that people watching the Grand Howl didn't get confused, and possibly so the leaders didn't get embarrassed!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKGS View Post
    Speaking as a Humanist (lets just say non-religious) leader who took that oath, I don't really have a problem with the royalty bit in the promise. I mean if Liz turned up and asked me to do something I probably would! I'm always polite to the elderly!

    As for the dyb dyb dyb bit I believe it was in until some point in the 60's. A little while back I found a pdf of the Wolf Cubs Handbook by Baden-Powell and had a (not complete) read through it. Lets just say some of those traditions are best left behind but, if you didn't know, in the book the sixers would say dyb dyb dyb, as a short form of Do Your Best and the six would reply dob dob dob for Do Our Best. It was removed so that people watching the Grand Howl didn't get confused, and possibly so the leaders didn't get embarrassed!
    I was aware of the dyb dob thing.

    I'm also ambivalent about the monarchy. But must admit, increasingly I'm feeling uncomfortable asking young people to make a promise off the back of it.

    That part of Scouting is no longer a priority as a result. We still muddle on.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I was aware of the dyb dob thing.

    I'm also ambivalent about the monarchy. But must admit, increasingly I'm feeling uncomfortable asking young people to make a promise off the back of it.

    That part of Scouting is no longer a priority as a result. We still muddle on.

    Funnily enough the promise was, to me, one of the things that set Scouting apart from other youth groups.

  5. #35
    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    The real problem here is that Wolf Cubs ceased to exist in 1967 and were replaced by Cub Scouts. The Jungle Book theme should really have been expunged then for the sake of clarity. But as is usual from SA they just let it fudge along for years. I never minded the Akela names but never minded what the kids called me. My cubs never really got on with the Grand Howl finding it an oddly strange concept to sit on their haunches and scream at the Leaders, so it was quickly dropped and more straight forward flag up & down procedure adopted (lots of rows with the GSL followed - who was a stickler for tradition)

  6. #36
    Man in a daft hat Hatman's Avatar
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    I was a Wolf Cub in the days of the dybs and I don't recall it being a problem. Later, when I was a young leader at the Cubs I had a Jungle Name (Kaa) and later still I was Akela. However, it was always a bit confusing because we had two Cub Packs and so had two Akelas. We did lots of joint activities leading to endless mix ups with different leaders with the same name.
    Some Beaver Colonies use names for the leaders like Hawk, Owl etc. Others use colours - Pink Beaver etc. When I became a Beaver Leader, the leaders already there just used their first names, and so the Beavers have always called me Nigel. When we started our second Cub Pack, I spent a year helping get it off the ground but all the Cubs had been Beavers so they continued to call me Nigel. Other leaders do have jungle names so I suppose we are a bit of a mixture.
    Personally, I am very happy to be called Nigel by 6 year olds. I suppose some may not like it but it has always worked for me. I suspect it does not bother the Beavers (or the Cubs) very much what you are called as long as you respond to something. The importance of it is probably more an adult thing than a Cub thing.

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    ABSL 1st Hoveton and Wroxham Sea Scouts
    www.hovetonandwroxhamscouts.org.uk

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    Funnily enough the promise was, to me, one of the things that set Scouting apart from other youth groups.
    Indeed. But there are plenty of other things that set us apart. And other youth groups have their own ways of instilling values. I think sometimes we assume they don't and we're unique.

    I don't think that's quite true.

  8. #38
    Senior Member chris@8th's Avatar
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    Our Cubs think the jungle book names are ace, and one of the reasons we never have a shortage of YLs is that they also want a name. We also do grand howl at the start of each pack night.
    Turns out we must be in the minority ��

    Akela (sometimes Chris)
    Chris

    Akela - 8th Mirfield
    Heavy Woollen District


  9. #39
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    We also use JB names and start/end each meeting with Grand Howl and Flag Break. Even if we're away from the hut. We've done Grand Howls on the High Street, on a railway platform, at the fire station....... (and like Chris, YLs are desperate for a name when the join us)
    Kate, CSL (and GDB(S))
    1st Weald Brook Scout Group
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    www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

  10. #40
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    While I might not currently call myself Akela, I've recently got a cheap 3D printer and I've made myself an Akela woggle and a friend a Bagherra one... :-) perhaps I'm just a hypocrite!

    IMG_1883.jpg

  11. #41
    Senior Member chris@8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKGS View Post
    While I might not currently call myself Akela, I've recently got a cheap 3D printer and I've made myself an Akela woggle and a friend a Bagherra one... :-) perhaps I'm just a hypocrite!

    IMG_1883.jpg
    They are ace
    Chris

    Akela - 8th Mirfield
    Heavy Woollen District


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    MikeKGS (15-02-2020)

  13. #42
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Adds to list of reasons I need a 3d printer

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

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    MikeKGS (15-02-2020)

  15. #43
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    To the comment (on the previous page) of using first names in Beavers, then Jungle Book names in Cubs, and then going back to first names for leaders in the Scouts -

    I don't know why, but I always assumed other Colonies used Jungle Book / similar names too. Our BSL goes by Kim - not from the Jungle Book, but still Kipling; he does make exceedingly good names after all!

    When Kat, one of our former Cubs (who had been a Cub in about 2000) came back to us for a couple of years as an ACSL, we asked if she was interested in taking a Jungle Book name and she jumped at the chance! ...she chose Shere Khan (because she wanted to be a cat. And I think she remembered how the last person to be Bagheera had ended up called Baggy, courtesy of l'il ol' me! xD).

    And one of our current CSSAs, when she was initially joining as an ACSL, also wanted to take on a Jungle Book, but didn't really know the story or characters very well. So we actually got the Cubs involved, asked them for suggestions...and she ended up becoming Raksha. She's been with us now nearly 4 years.
    1988 - 1990: 4th Streatham Sea Scouts (PMLO), Beaver
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  16. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    They are ace
    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    Adds to list of reasons I need a 3d printer

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
    if you like those how about these batman ones Ive made for the Cubs for the district super hero camp in May :-)

    EF569F1E-DCE6-4862-9C1D-E594DC81081B.jpeg

    well paint the on the first night

  17. #45
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKGS View Post
    if you like those how about these batman ones Ive made for the Cubs for the district super hero camp in May :-)

    EF569F1E-DCE6-4862-9C1D-E594DC81081B.jpeg

    well paint the on the first night
    What printer do you have?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

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