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Thread: Emergency Aid level four

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    Emergency Aid level four

    I'd like to do level four with our Scouts. The requirements are fairly clear - but are based on number of hours training from "an adult with relevant experience".

    What I'd like to do is run a series of sessions of training, then have a semi-formal test for each Scout - we have a few GPs, nurses and paramedics we can call on to run the test.

    Has anyone approached it this way, and have you got "test" criteria I could use?

    I think this is one of the few badges where I'd want to set absolute criteria for success, and have a defined standard they have to meet to get the badge. For some that might take less than the three-six hours of training the badge requirements state, for others, it would be more.

    Nathan

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    When teaching Emergency Aid I have simply assessed people as we have gone along rather than have a formal assessment.

    The way that we have usually conducted assessments in St John Ambulance however - for both adults and young people - is to have a resuscitation scenario where the candidate demonstrates CPR on a manikin and then a second scenario involving diagnosis and treatment of an injury or medical condition.

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    GSL/ESL(YL)/TA Mark W's Avatar
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    An interesting thought. What you're suggesting is to go beyond the actual badge requirements (just do 3-6 hours of relevant training to get a piece of cloth that doesn't mean anything to sew onto a sleeve) by doing some assessment of the knowledge received to an absolute standard (some validation!) yet there are some that think that it's not worth assessing whether students have learned anything, understood it and can apply their training when it might be argued to be more important (sole responsibility for a section of young people doing adventurous activities). Just an observation
    If it was easy, it wouldn't be so much fun...
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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    16 hour FA qualifications are now NVQ level 2 according to my last certificate.

    Why not just do 16 hour courses? I am sure that there is funding available for training young people. (If not adults).
    Ewan Scott

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    Baloo KoopaCooper's Avatar
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    I feel like if any activity badge needs to be professionally assessed and graded on a pass/fail basis to an absolute standard, it should be the Emergency Aid badge.

    After all, it could directly save someone's life someday (or not)...!

    Not quite sure how you'd go about working out a marking scheme for such an assessment though? How are actual, professional-level courses assessed? (At least, I'm presuming that they are)
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoopaCooper View Post
    I feel like if any activity badge needs to be professionally assessed and graded on a pass/fail basis to an absolute standard, it should be the Emergency Aid badge.

    After all, it could directly save someone's life someday (or not)...!
    Why? It's never going to be a qualification that anybody is going to use to get a responsible job. If more than one first aider turns up at an incident they're not going to compare their Scout Badges to decide who takes over. Much more relevant to competence is not whether the badge was professionally assessed or not, it's how long ago it was practiced. Of course get the best instruction you can. But if professional assessment means you can do it less often you may be reducing the overall benefit.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    f professional assessment means you can do it less often you may be reducing the overall benefit.
    abso-freakin-lootly

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    A side effect of 'professional' assessment is that it gives the assessee more confidence going forward. That's one of the reasons we did the St Andrews first aid instead of first response.

    How you do your training is just as important as the skills the training imparts.

    Or something like that anyway.

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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoopaCooper View Post
    After all, it could directly save someone's life someday (or not)...!
    In my opinion they are more likely to save lives by making the scene of an accident safe (preventing it getting worse), effectively getting help, clearing airways and stopping catastrophic bleeding. There is too much emphasis on CPR, how many chest compressions, how many rescue breaths and what tune to use.
    Last edited by Kev; 24-03-2020 at 11:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    In my opinion they are more likely to save lives by making the scene of an accident safe (preventing it getting worse), effectively getting help, clearing airways and stopping catastrophic bleeding. There is too much emphasis on CPR, how many chest compressions, how many rescue breaths and what tune to use.

    I think it depends on the accident.

    One of my St John Cadets saw a motorcyclist hit a car that had pulled out after dropping kids at school. She simply held onto his helmet - in case he had damaged his spine - , checked that he was responsive and waited for the ambulance that a parent had phoned for his helmet.

    Other situations will require more skill. I have never seen the point in teaching a person to open the airway and check breathing if they do not know what to do if the person is not breathing.

    I am not too sure how often catastrophic bleeding occurs. I don't think I have ever dealt with it.

    I do not think there is too much emphasis on CPR. If I do a First Response or Emergency Aid course I probably spend about 30 minutes on CPR. That leaves over 5 hours for the rest of the course. I do not teach doing CPR to tunes.

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