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Thread: Capitation Refund?

  1. #241
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    I can understand the original intention of having Scout Counties matching Council Counties boundaries as it makes it easier for funding, publicity etc
    Districts though don't match up with our District council boundaries or even school catchments which can create problems and does give issues especially where a district is split or transport links go to the wrong area.

    Our District is a result of a merger of 3 and we now are the largest in the county, have groups under every district council with differing policies and support
    Dave Ralphs
    Yarnton Scout Group (Treasurer)
    DofE Advisor & District Exec Member - Oxford Spires District
    http://yarntonscouts.org.uk/

    I work for O2, any posts are my own personal views & do not represent O2

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    I guess the alternative would be to split the county into 4 counties (which I imagine would only have a couple of districts in each) to match Bath, Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire.

    Or to split it down the middle and merge half into Somerset (already a massive county) and half into Gloucestershire (also a massive county)

    I assume as the county no longer has it's own campsite to manage there would be no need to worry about that.

    I'd rather see smaller counties and an abolition of districts.
    There was a proposal to merge Bath District with Wansdyke District to match the authority area of Bath and North East Somerset, but that was vigorously opposed by both districts. To be fair it had a lot of flaws trying to match one very rural area with one urban area, and in the process creating some significant distances. Locally presents a really good case study in reviewing the current arrangements. 4 super districts wouldn't work and you'd presumably overload regional commissioners trying to manage all that across such a vast area. County seems superfluous other than being vaguely near enough to make a sensible stab at district commissioners but I think unfortunately the maxim that those that are keen to manage are possibly those that shouldn't be allowed does hold some water in a Scouting context at times.

    I think before you start changes you might as well go back to a blank sheet of paper and decide what functions you want below HQ (bearing in mind safeguarding and financial considerations) - and having done that decide how to do it.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    There was a proposal to merge Bath District with Wansdyke District to match the authority area of Bath and North East Somerset, but that was vigorously opposed by both districts. To be fair it had a lot of flaws trying to match one very rural area with one urban area, and in the process creating some significant distances. Locally presents a really good case study in reviewing the current arrangements. 4 super districts wouldn't work and you'd presumably overload regional commissioners trying to manage all that across such a vast area. County seems superfluous other than being vaguely near enough to make a sensible stab at district commissioners but I think unfortunately the maxim that those that are keen to manage are possibly those that shouldn't be allowed does hold some water in a Scouting context at times.

    I think before you start changes you might as well go back to a blank sheet of paper and decide what functions you want below HQ (bearing in mind safeguarding and financial considerations) - and having done that decide how to do it.
    I assume Wansdike is the bits if BaNES that are outside the city of bath? I can see why merging a district that wraps around another would make sense... but can see the issues too

  4. #244
    Senior Member Ian Mallett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    I assume Wansdyke is the bits if BaNES that are outside the city of bath? I can see why merging a district that wraps around another would make sense... but can see the issues too
    Yes apart from the fact that the Groups based in Batheaston, Bathampton and Freshford, which are outside the City of Bath, are in Bath District, not Wansdyke district, and were even back in the 60s & 70s.
    Simba (my daughter wouldn't let me be Rafiki, and now she's a Network Scout & ABSL)
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  5. #245
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    I can understand the original intention of having Scout Counties matching Council Counties boundaries as it makes it easier for funding, publicity etc
    Districts though don't match up with our District council boundaries or even school catchments which can create problems and does give issues especially where a district is split or transport links go to the wrong area.

    Our District is a result of a merger of 3 and we now are the largest in the county, have groups under every district council with differing policies and support
    Many districts do still follow council boundaries except where relatively recent changes were made because of unitary authority formation/boundary changes, most notably in the new(er) metropolitan counties, for example. My mate, also called Dave, lives down south in a now metropolitan county and there the scouting districts largely still follow old old district councils and or old county borough's boundaries, even though some are now in just one unitary authority. One district has, I think, 2 groups which many people consider are in the neighbouring district, but they're not; they're still in the old (I think) county borough district not the neighbouring district while both scout districts are now in the same unitary authority (and new metropolitan county, but still think in some ways are part of the old county (which they border). But that all began with local government changes in 1974; some changed, some didn't. Other changes have been made by local scouting reorganisation such as mergers. Loyalty plays a big part: some districts have stayed largely the same but others have changed for new opportunities or better administration.

    Look back in your history. When I joined scouting in my village it was in a different county, but It's in a new county now; still the same village in the same place. When I became a leader i joined a group in a neighbouring district. But the group and district are still in the same council in which I live but I scout in a foreign district. Mostly such scouting anomalies are merely quirks of history.
    HTH.

    TM 😊
    going...going...still here...just

  6. #246
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    As I understand it there is no definitive map of scout district boundaries... so where a new group opens on the border of two districts it is a case of the districts agreeing which district the group will fall in? Or perhaps more likely which district came up with the plan to open the group.

    (This is based on previous issues notifying host Dcs of greenfield camps when neither district thought the land was within their boundary. In the end our home DC told us to email the relevant county commissioner and leave it to them to pass on as they saw fit.

  7. #247
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    As I understand it there is no definitive map of scout district boundaries... so where a new group opens on the border of two districts it is a case of the districts agreeing which district the group will fall in? Or perhaps more likely which district came up with the plan to open the group.

    (This is based on previous issues notifying host Dcs of greenfield camps when neither district thought the land was within their boundary. In the end our home DC told us to email the relevant county commissioner and leave it to them to pass on as they saw fit.
    You're correct; as you understand it. It will be agreed and understood between districts and county as to which is where. Districts may propose but county will decide, if it comes having to decide.

    I was once employed by a county to mentor for a new group which had opened in one of the districts. It was within 2 miles of a neighbouring district, however, it was county's choice; no argument. Both districts were happy. (It was a county scout appointment and I was employed. I had to travel across another district to get there, but this district where I was employed was a neighbouring district to mine in which I scouted. How weird? But it's all about geography.

    Iirc, there's one group in a district which is 2 miles from another group in the same district but 5 miles from DHQ, but 1 mile from another group and 1.5 miles from yet another group which are both in another district.(it's an isthmus of a sort.)

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

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