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Thread: All leaders online meeting tonight

  1. #46
    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post

    I find it's mostly greedy middle class parents who whine about cost, not people who are in genuine hardship who are more likely to make a quiet application to our hardship fund.

    I will, as ever, put myself out for "can'ts" but I will never, ever put any effort whatsoever in for "won'ts".
    Agreed.
    Jonathan Bloor
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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I took issue with someone else over this on I think 1FB.

    Family and close friends
    Work
    Hobbies including Scouting

    ...in that order. Anyone who has the order wrong either has relationship issues (in which case best of luck solving them) or their priorities dead wrong.
    Not quite - you missed Health, from the list.

    When I was a fairly active leader, this was the GSL's mantra and repeated to all leaders regular intervals.
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Not quite - you missed Health, from the list.

    When I was a fairly active leader, this was the GSL's mantra and repeated to all leaders regular intervals.
    That's not a bad way of putting it. I didn't want to put "self" first because volunteering is by its nature to some extent selfless, but "health" or "safety" is a good one to put first. That said, that doesn't always follow; clearly anyone volunteering for COVID relief is to some extent compromising their health and safety by doing so, and I wouldn't want to discourage that among well-informed adults knowing what risk they are choosing to take.

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  6. #49
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    I entirely agree with that order (including health) - I think we may all need to give serious consideration to what organisations etc we want to see survive and do whatever we can to prop them up through this, even to the extent of paying for things that we don't actually receive. That might be our groups, it might be the local pub, it might be your favourite B&B. There may be a case for sharing that thought with the group family (parents, leaders etc) and letting them decide what they want to contribute beyond any compulsory subs.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  7. #50
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    What was almost as interesting, here and on that facebook, was the reaction. You'd have thought there were two different meetings happening last night from the feed/blow back. Some appreciating the candour and feeling the love, to some saying what an awful useless bunch HQ are and what a terrible meeting it was. I guess it didn't really change hearts and minds then. And to see how you felt about the meeting, you could look in the mirror, and see what you feel about HQ, and that'll be how you felt about the meeting.

    HQ are in a hole (same as just about everyone else then), and now we know how deep that hole is. And how it's not getting any shallower anytime soon. It's a perfect storm, just as they were going to start ramping up AMS for all the old abuse claims and increasing injury claims, along comes Covid and pulls the rug on all commercial income.

    One thing I didn't understand was the graph they showed of "vetting" getting higher and higher every year, what's that about? I mean, DBS is DBS right? What am I missing?
    Ian Wilkins
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  9. #51
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    That's exactly how our group approached it. We offered half subs. We offered no subs. 6 or so of 100 are now not paying subs. Half are paying half subs. Half are paying full subs! Go figure?!? I'm amazed


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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    One thing I didn't understand was the graph they showed of "vetting" getting higher and higher every year, what's that about? I mean, DBS is DBS right? What am I missing?
    I can only presume as the movement grows, the number of adults needing vetting for a role increases, and in turn the volume of "non-standard" returns that need more work and investigation rises?
    --
    Dan Sheehan
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    9th Muswell Hill Scout Group

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  11. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    I entirely agree with that order (including health) - I think we may all need to give serious consideration to what organisations etc we want to see survive and do whatever we can to prop them up through this, even to the extent of paying for things that we don't actually receive. That might be our groups, it might be the local pub, it might be your favourite B&B. There may be a case for sharing that thought with the group family (parents, leaders etc) and letting them decide what they want to contribute beyond any compulsory subs.
    We said "pay what you can" very early on. And I'm still, subject to my job continuing, paying membership at my local climbing wall, I don't want it to fold. I could easily have a few months off from an injury and wouldn't likely cancel it then.

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  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsheehan View Post
    I can only presume as the movement grows, the number of adults needing vetting for a role increases, and in turn the volume of "non-standard" returns that need more work and investigation rises?
    But that could be reduced significantly by the dba going to the GSL in the first place... As then the GSL as the manager may well decide "thats a no" without requiring HQ to do any extra work.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloory View Post
    I appreciate hardship, but 1 a week suggests that people don't value what's on offer.
    Oh, I agree, but when you are trying to work with a "different" mindset you see some different attitudes.

    My politics have moved to the left in recent years. However, when I see the attitude to poverty I sometimes have to bite my tongue (yes, I can shut-up when I need to).

    There are very few people in our local community who are on the breadline - Evidence - a Credit Union set up to help those with financial difficulties failed because no-one was using it. We have no foodbank - though at this time it might be used if it were created), and when we have run free food and activity events there has been absolutely zero uptake. Even a 10K project to get kids active only attracted eight youngsters, four or five of whom already came to Navigators and only went because I pushed it like crazy.

    I have been asked to run Fit and Fed type events by the funders, but I have declined because I felt guilty that the only kids accessing the funds were our own members!

    However, it is argued that the kids on the street can't afford 3 a week. My argument was that they can afford the latest trainers, cigarettes and drugs - so I think they could manage 3 a week... I believe that if they get value for money they will stay.
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    We said "pay what you can" very early on. And I'm still, subject to my job continuing, paying membership at my local climbing wall, I don't want it to fold. I could easily have a few months off from an injury and wouldn't likely cancel it then.
    But how much detail did you give parents as to where that money would be going.

    Do they know for example that it's going to fund Matt Hydes wage... or to pay historic abuse claims that have nothing to do with your group, or to cover a pensions deficit that again has nothing to do with your group. Or so they think it's keeping your local groups HQ insured and stopping the mice eating the tents?

    It's very easy to find out what Matt is paid... It works out about 20p per member (not including expenses) which, while it may not seem a lot, is still way more than he is worth - especially when Tim costs nothing apart from a few expenses. For an organisation with relatively few paid staff and a volunteer management structure Matt is very much overpaid

    It's probably not so easy to find out how much of our current members fees are spent on paying out in historic claims, or on the pension deficit.

    If as a group you can pick up liability insurance elsewhere for about 10-15 per head... Then if AMS were to rise to 45, that's 30 per child per year with no real direct benefit to that child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    But that could be reduced significantly by the dba going to the GSL in the first place... As then the GSL as the manager may well decide "thats a no" without requiring HQ to do any extra work.
    I suspect you would to avoid and prepare for the inevitable complaints and issues when you reject applications need more of a panel/ process in that decision that it being the GSL's sole call. Something a kin to the AAC set up, who could perhaps take this on because I agree, the more that can be kept local the better.
    --
    Dan Sheehan
    Group Scout Leader
    9th Muswell Hill Scout Group

    District Training Adviser
    District Executive Member
    District Appointment Advisory Comittee
    North London District Scouts

    web: www.9thmuswellhill.org.uk
    twitter: @9thMuswellHill
    facebook: /9thmuswellhill

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  18. #58
    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Oh, I agree, but when you are trying to work with a "different" mindset you see some different attitudes.

    My politics have moved to the left in recent years. However, when I see the attitude to poverty I sometimes have to bite my tongue (yes, I can shut-up when I need to).

    There are very few people in our local community who are on the breadline - Evidence - a Credit Union set up to help those with financial difficulties failed because no-one was using it. We have no foodbank - though at this time it might be used if it were created), and when we have run free food and activity events there has been absolutely zero uptake. Even a 10K project to get kids active only attracted eight youngsters, four or five of whom already came to Navigators and only went because I pushed it like crazy.

    I have been asked to run Fit and Fed type events by the funders, but I have declined because I felt guilty that the only kids accessing the funds were our own members!

    However, it is argued that the kids on the street can't afford 3 a week. My argument was that they can afford the latest trainers, cigarettes and drugs - so I think they could manage 3 a week... I believe that if they get value for money they will stay.
    Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that money, or lack of it, isn't the barrier. Perception, desire, support, location and so many other things are. I'm truly keen to reach out and offer Scouting to ALL. Our latest project was building/enhancing a community facility in a part of town where the children don't particular engage. I think it will build a really long lasting relationship and help to shape our group to include that community too.
    Jonathan Bloor
    Escouts Team
    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

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  20. #59
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloory View Post
    Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that money, or lack of it, isn't the barrier. Perception, desire, support, location and so many other things are. I'm truly keen to reach out and offer Scouting to ALL. Our latest project was building/enhancing a community facility in a part of town where the children don't particular engage. I think it will build a really long lasting relationship and help to shape our group to include that community too.
    Again, this is absolutely the case.

    It is going to be difficult, but we will all get there in the end.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    For sure.. Whether it's Scouts, Navs, youth work or something else, it's so important that everyone feels like they belong as part of a comminity.
    Jonathan Bloor
    Escouts Team
    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

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