Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 52

Thread: Is there now any chance of a summer camp?

  1. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    1,073
    Thanks
    138
    Thanked 431 Times in 271 Posts
    I agree with all you've said here Ewan... although hopefully as the R number (and thus the number of cases) gets lower and there is less of the virus in the UK, there may be some reduction in SD... particularly for kids.

    Just to clarify though, archery bows can be sanitised... make sure the strings are well waxed before though so it's a cleanable, less porous, surface.

  2. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,405
    Thanks
    2,136
    Thanked 1,504 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Hmmm...

    I disagree on hiking. Given they're suggesting social distancing is going to be a norm for going forward. Young people are going to have to learn how to do it, so they're going to have to actually do it in order to get good at it.

    I'm well aware of what kid's propensities are, but I think we'd be being too cautious ruling things out.

    So whether it's walking in a grid (where possible) or single file-spaced out. If that becomes second nature, surely, us doing it would be a good thing?

    A couple of things I've thought of since my post above (and ideas for our next video)... For hiking, get walking poles or staffs. These can be reminders about social distancing. Since they all tend to whack each other with them anyway, this could be an agreeable method of maintaining distance. For camping, I ordered a hammock set up last night so will feature that, (haven't done it before, so we'll see how it goes...) Hammocks are pretty much solo affairs, so are an option instead of hike tents.

    We already use single person cooking equipment. I'm trying to think of ways to spread out and 'share' a fire, or use microfires... That needs more thought.

    The thing is, these might be things we end up having to do anyway, and someone or some group of us is going to have to think it up.

    TL/DR, if SD is going to be the norm, we need to start looking at how we make it work sooner rather than later.

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    279
    Thanks
    432
    Thanked 74 Times in 58 Posts
    Interesting points

    I would have thought that most water activities would be ok as due to risks from water bourne diseases, safe hygeine was already practiced so just need to sort the SD aspect

    For us pedalcar racing where its a team event (or a duo unless you are totally insane and do it solo) is going to be really difficult. We can SD in the pits and other areas but the pedalcar itself is shared and not easy to sanitise during a 10s pitstop and driver change.

    I do wonder if some of the SD around the 2m rule was to give a sense of safety and to stop handshakes/hugs/accidental contact rather than any real use due to how far a cough or sneeze travels. Appreciate that someone can be asymptomatic but if someone is coughing and sneezing then they shouldn't be in that space, they need to mask up, go home, and self isolate and get checked. (just wait til my hay fever kicks in, i'll clear the whole of Oxford in one go )
    If people are well enough to go on activities then surely occasional limited contact should be ok.

    I still think 2020 is a bust for camping, dofe and so on. Can we try turning it off and back on
    Dave Ralphs
    Yarnton Scout Group (Treasurer)
    DofE Advisor & District Exec Member - Oxford Spires District
    http://yarntonscouts.org.uk/

    I work for O2, any posts are my own personal views & do not represent O2

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to dralphs For This Useful Post:

    pa_broon74 (12-05-2020)

  5. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    2,731
    Thanks
    609
    Thanked 662 Times in 412 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Hmmm...

    I disagree on hiking. Given they're suggesting social distancing is going to be a norm for going forward. Young people are going to have to learn how to do it, so they're going to have to actually do it in order to get good at it.

    I'm well aware of what kid's propensities are, but I think we'd be being too cautious ruling things out.

    So whether it's walking in a grid (where possible) or single file-spaced out. If that becomes second nature, surely, us doing it would be a good thing?

    A couple of things I've thought of since my post above (and ideas for our next video)... For hiking, get walking poles or staffs. These can be reminders about social distancing. Since they all tend to whack each other with them anyway, this could be an agreeable method of maintaining distance. For camping, I ordered a hammock set up last night so will feature that, (haven't done it before, so we'll see how it goes...) Hammocks are pretty much solo affairs, so are an option instead of hike tents.

    We already use single person cooking equipment. I'm trying to think of ways to spread out and 'share' a fire, or use microfires... That needs more thought.

    The thing is, these might be things we end up having to do anyway, and someone or some group of us is going to have to think it up.

    TL/DR, if SD is going to be the norm, we need to start looking at how we make it work sooner rather than later.
    These are all very good ideas - but fall over on the assumption that our young members will obey all social distancing rules at all times on this camp. The adherence to hand washing and avoidance of contact transmission will be very hard if not impossible - and it appears that contact transmisison through surfaces is the most significant method.

    So... I think you'll find it hard and also hard to convince *some* parents that you're taking this seriously if you can't answer those points.

  6. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,019
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 191 Times in 104 Posts
    I would say, if you have a camp planned, with deposits etc taken, a site booked etc, or booked into an organise/semi.organised event that has not yet been cancelled then, there is a slight chance it may still haoppen.
    If you are planning a camp that is still in the planning stages with nothing booked, then I would inform of the plans but wait.

    Either which way without a change to social distancing things will be difficult if not impossible, even if schools are back

    - - - Updated - - -

    I would say, if you have a camp planned, with deposits etc taken, a site booked etc, or booked into an organise/semi.organised event that has not yet been cancelled then, there is a slight chance it may still happen.
    If you are planning a camp that is still in the planning stages with nothing booked, then I would inform of the plans but wait.

    Either which way without a change to social distancing things will be difficult if not impossible, even if schools are back

  7. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,405
    Thanks
    2,136
    Thanked 1,504 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    These are all very good ideas - but fall over on the assumption that our young members will obey all social distancing rules at all times on this camp. The adherence to hand washing and avoidance of contact transmission will be very hard if not impossible - and it appears that contact transmisison through surfaces is the most significant method.

    So... I think you'll find it hard and also hard to convince *some* parents that you're taking this seriously if you can't answer those points.
    They're not going to obey social distancing rules anyway. The only way to guarantee that, is to continue with the lock down - and even then, as we can see already, people are 'using their common sense' and flouting the rules anyway.

    This is as much an issue of pragmatism as it is about science.

    The whole point of this, is to make non-contact the aim. It's not an after-thought, it is the point. It's a completely different way of comporting ourselves while out and about under all circumstances.

    Scouting is already well placed in terms of self-reliance on expeditions (say). We already have gear that can be used by a single person on a wild camp. The equipment isn't the problem. It's habitual behaviour that needs to change - and as we are so keen to do at Scouts, you learn by doing.

    TSA of course won't do it, so it's moot. But at some point we're going to have to start training young people about how they're going to have to behave around each other. I haven't read the fifty page document, so I don't know if there's anything in there about education and this new reality.

  8. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    2,731
    Thanks
    609
    Thanked 662 Times in 412 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    They're not going to obey social distancing rules anyway. The only way to guarantee that, is to continue with the lock down - and even then, as we can see already, people are 'using their common sense' and flouting the rules anyway.

    This is as much an issue of pragmatism as it is about science.

    The whole point of this, is to make non-contact the aim. It's not an after-thought, it is the point. It's a completely different way of comporting ourselves while out and about under all circumstances.

    Scouting is already well placed in terms of self-reliance on expeditions (say). We already have gear that can be used by a single person on a wild camp. The equipment isn't the problem. It's habitual behaviour that needs to change - and as we are so keen to do at Scouts, you learn by doing.

    TSA of course won't do it, so it's moot. But at some point we're going to have to start training young people about how they're going to have to behave around each other. I haven't read the fifty page document, so I don't know if there's anything in there about education and this new reality.
    You talk a lot of sense, but that won't override TSA advice, if they decide it's unsafe then nothing will be authorised. I think that "they'd break the rules anyway" won't release you from the obligation to arrange a safe camp, or take responsibility if you can't guarantee their behaviour. SImilarly if someone went on your camp and infected others with consequent issues you could easily see consequences for you personally and TSA - TSA won't let you take that risk I suspect.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    16,415
    Thanks
    593
    Thanked 3,382 Times in 1,840 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    Interesting points

    I would have thought that most water activities would be ok as due to risks from water bourne diseases, safe hygeine was already practiced so just need to sort the SD aspect
    You might have thought so... Due to legal issues and RA, there has been a block on us paddling at the local water park for the past two and a bit years. There we had showers that were accessed directly after coming of the water. We have had to move to the canal and river - with no facilities. We do our utmost to get people to follow hygiene rules but they will often get off the water, into the car and get changed at home - ample time for any infection to take hold.

    I say, remember you have just been paddling in the canal and river, both of with are sewage overflows in flood times, so do not eat or drink without washing first. They come off the water and dig in to a bag of crisps, or had up to the chip shop...

    Boris let slip the other day something about the virus being in the water supply, which is exceedingly worrying. If it is in the water supply, it might well be present in the watercourse... I see that his error has been clarified - he should have said waste water - which given that many kayakers paddle in flood waters, is a tad worrying. ( we don't take kids out in flood conditions though).
    Last edited by Bushfella; 12-05-2020 at 11:35 AM.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  10. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,744
    Thanks
    3,004
    Thanked 2,436 Times in 1,526 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I say, remember you have just been paddling in the canal and river, both of with are sewage overflows in flood times, so do not eat or drink without washing first. They come off the water and dig in to a bag of crisps, or had up to the chip shop...
    I can feel with this one. The one and only time I have ever had food poisoning on camp it was due to eating a sandwich having got out of a mucky pond without washing my hands. Oops.

  11. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,405
    Thanks
    2,136
    Thanked 1,504 Times in 1,068 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    You talk a lot of sense, but that won't override TSA advice, if they decide it's unsafe then nothing will be authorised. I think that "they'd break the rules anyway" won't release you from the obligation to arrange a safe camp, or take responsibility if you can't guarantee their behaviour. SImilarly if someone went on your camp and infected others with consequent issues you could easily see consequences for you personally and TSA - TSA won't let you take that risk I suspect.
    No. You're quite right - they won't.

    But as a thought exercise, and going forward. At some point we/they are going to have to think about this. The alternative is, that scouting does not return for one to two years.

  12. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    1,073
    Thanks
    138
    Thanked 431 Times in 271 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I can feel with this one. The one and only time I have ever had food poisoning on camp it was due to eating a sandwich having got out of a mucky pond without washing my hands. Oops.
    I'm sure we've all done it. Maybe we got away with it maybe we didn't. All we can do is assess the risk and impose the rules...

    I must admit when I've been kayaking on the wye, unless I've got completely soaked I'll usually sit down in a pub and enjoy a pint and some chips. Ok I'll wash my hands first but wouldn't get changed if I was just a bit damp. It's probably a cleaner river than many but I'm sure it still harbours plenty of nasties

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to campwarden For This Useful Post:

    dralphs (12-05-2020),Neil Williams (12-05-2020)

  14. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    469
    Thanks
    143
    Thanked 171 Times in 99 Posts
    My example at our Exec in May was - can you social distance whilst kayaking? What happens when someone goes overboard (and there is always one or two that do). How can you socially distance whilst dragging someone across your boat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    2,731
    Thanks
    609
    Thanked 662 Times in 412 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by claire.shadbolt View Post
    My example at our Exec in May was - can you social distance whilst kayaking? What happens when someone goes overboard (and there is always one or two that do). How can you socially distance whilst dragging someone across your boat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    And I suppose this comes back to the way out. Some countries have all but eliminated the virus, it seems likely in our case that's unlikely, we are just too big and population density too high in our cities. So the key is now to cope I suspect - which means that those who won't block up the NHS, and have a vanishingly small chance of complications - or even being symptomatic - may be able to do Scouting whilst those who are truly vulnerable take far more precautions to avoid getting it.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RisingStar For This Useful Post:

    campwarden (12-05-2020),dralphs (12-05-2020)

  17. #29
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    16,415
    Thanks
    593
    Thanked 3,382 Times in 1,840 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by claire.shadbolt View Post
    My example at our Exec in May was - can you social distance whilst kayaking? What happens when someone goes overboard (and there is always one or two that do). How can you socially distance whilst dragging someone across your boat.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    We plan on, initially, only taking out those who a/ are highly unlikely to capsize B/ can readily swim to shore.

    I doubt that we would take the beginners out initially.

    We have not had an outdoors capsize by any of our more advanced paddlers in several years. In fact, I can only recall two capsizes in the past five years. Both by paddlers who had not attended pool sessions. I tell a lie - there was a coach who fell in either getting in or out of his boat...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  18. #30
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    16,415
    Thanks
    593
    Thanked 3,382 Times in 1,840 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    And I suppose this comes back to the way out. Some countries have all but eliminated the virus, it seems likely in our case that's unlikely, we are just too big and population density too high in our cities. So the key is now to cope I suspect - which means that those who won't block up the NHS, and have a vanishingly small chance of complications - or even being symptomatic - may be able to do Scouting whilst those who are truly vulnerable take far more precautions to avoid getting it.
    Hmm, that's twice today there has been a hint that those who might be vulnerable should be somehow isolated, perhaps in a camp of some kind.. no, I know that is not what you meant... How does anyone KNOW who is not going to get this? If we knew the answer to that we would not need any Lockdown at all.

    This comes back to a previous discussion that you have led about the physical fitness of Leaders. You were speaking, at the time, about those who are overweight and perhaps give a poor example by their lack of health.

    On the basis of your above argument - I'll hazard a guess about my erstwhile District. Of the Leaders that I knew at the time. I'd guess that over 50% would not be fit to leader under your obesity test, and more would be excluded by isolation. The District could potentially see its Leadership reduced by up to 2/3rds.

    I've made my thought clear all along, but, when the time comes, we will introduce what activity we can, in as controlled a manner as we can. When we feel that the risk can be managed to a degree that we feel is acceptable. That might not be the same as others around us. That will be our choice.

    If we go too early, the parents will tell us by not allowing their kids to attend. And that will be their choice, quite rightly.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

Similar Threads

  1. Tell me about your Summer Camp
    By Puzzledbyadream in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 09-09-2015, 02:41 PM
  2. Summer Camp or No Summer Camp... this is the question????
    By austin666 in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 24-08-2010, 10:46 PM
  3. Summer camp
    By tim_n in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 18-08-2010, 08:22 AM
  4. Summer camp
    By mat4134 in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-06-2010, 09:18 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •