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Thread: Scouting coming out of Lockdown

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    It seems to me, what ever ends up happening, it won't be until at least autumn - which seems reasonable.

    I think it's been proven, that what ever TSA decides, it needs to be concise and given with plenty of notice for digestion.

    It frustrates me (slightly) that older sections in specific circumstances (after August, not right now), could be out doing things. But, for TSA to put that into a written form that can be communicated effectively, would be exceedingly difficult (as already proven). So we're limited in that regard too.

    Groups do not react to information in the same way individuals do. (As has been made obvious...)
    I think part of the problem coming out of lockdown is people got so used to an absolute "you must do this / you must not do that" that reverting back to the more normal.approach of "here is guidance, now go use common sense" will be difficult for some. That said, I'd prefer that to being governed by very specific laws... not least because once you start down that route it sets a precedent.

    The Westminster approach of "stay alert" pushes people to think about their actions rather than being spoon fed what to do. I just hope the great British public can use some common sense and that we aren't pushed into stricter lockdown by people who can't understand what 2m means.

    As you say... small groups of scouts and explorers could probably start doing outdoor activities way before it becomes safe for a cub pack to meet in a hall.

    Remember in TSA... unlike archery gb, the rules are absolute and enforceable.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    As you say... small groups of scouts and explorers could probably start doing outdoor activities way before it becomes safe for a cub pack to meet in a hall.
    Or, as I mentioned, Beavers and Cubs could initially return in the form of whole-family (or at least parent-and-child) outdoor activities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    I think part of the problem coming out of lockdown is people got so used to an absolute "you must do this / you must not do that" that reverting back to the more normal.approach of "here is guidance, now go use common sense" will be difficult for some. That said, I'd prefer that to being governed by very specific laws... not least because once you start down that route it sets a precedent.

    The Westminster approach of "stay alert" pushes people to think about their actions rather than being spoon fed what to do. I just hope the great British public can use some common sense and that we aren't pushed into stricter lockdown by people who can't understand what 2m means.

    As you say... small groups of scouts and explorers could probably start doing outdoor activities way before it becomes safe for a cub pack to meet in a hall.

    Remember in TSA... unlike archery gb, the rules are absolute and enforceable.
    I don't think it's as simple as that. And the problem with common sense is, it's massively subjective so really, can't be relied up in a situation which requires conformity within a vast group.

    I think that's why very specific aspects of scouting, although safe for older sections, won't be allowed to begin - because people will use their 'common sense' and re-interpret to suit their perspective.

    There was was always a strong aspirational streak to the lock down. I do know a lot of people were (and still are) keeping to the letter of the law. But most never did. But, as a mob, we all generally behaved (roughly speaking) at a level which achieved the required aim, mostly.

    In a sense, Scouts is a microcosm of the wider community, just with more specific circumstances to consider perhaps.

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    The Westminster approach of "stay alert" pushes people to think about their actions rather than being spoon fed what to do. I just hope the great British public can use some common sense and that we aren't pushed into stricter lockdown by people who can't understand what 2m means.
    Now mention of common sense and the great british public just reminds me of this...

    common sense creme eggs.png
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Government guidelines do. I believe, restrict equipment access to your own kit. Which would currently rule out multiple use of equipment.

    I must admit that looking forward, I had seen archery as an activity that we could offer and social distance - I had not really considered how we would clean the strings. Having to restring between users would be problematical - The kids cannot restring the bows, so an adult would have to do the restringing - therebye compromising the safety procedure. Buying every member their own string is absolutely possible, but managing the kit would become a challenge - what string goes where and with which bow, and where is Smithy's string pouch...

    Is there any idea of the impact of various sterilisers on the Dacron? I'd hate to think of it embrittling the Dacron and it suddenly snapping under tension...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Actually, reading your thinking - you are not far off where I am in this regards. I think it would be hugely damaging for us to go back before people were ready.

    In a discussion with my Exec ( remember we are independent so not bound by TSA) we came to the conclusion that we should make no announcements on restarting until we knew that we could restart safely, and within government guidelines.

    All being well, I suspect that we might get some activity this August - but not camps, and it will be built around some social distancing.
    Would it not be easier for users to buy and wear gloves for archery?
    I use a Bear Claw, which means my fingers donít come into contact with the string.

    I suspect there is a difference between someone borrowing a bow and having their own string and running taster/ group sessions.


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    Shaun

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    Hanging Heaton Scout Group

  10. #21
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Umm disinfectant and alcohol wipes exist, cleaning items such as a bows, strings and arrows, between different users is fairly easy to do so long as it is actually done and not forgotten.

    I'd suggest having two sets of kit on the go so when one set is in use the other set can be being cleaned quickly.
    Last edited by shiftypete; 22-05-2020 at 12:31 PM.

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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Now mention of common sense and the great british public just reminds me of this...

    common sense creme eggs.png
    The best one recently, were the couple complaining about how busy the beach was and how difficult it was to socially distance properly - after having drive 90 miles to sit on the beach.

    It does not bode well for the great British public's common sense.

  12. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Would it not be easier for users to buy and wear gloves for archery?
    I use a Bear Claw, which means my fingers don’t come into contact with the string.

    I suspect there is a difference between someone borrowing a bow and having their own string and running taster/ group sessions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Think how close to your face the string comes. We were already thinking about this issue before lockdown. A cloth mask might help a bit though

    It's not ideal but we have come up with a way to run a beginners course while following 1:1 rules. It involves 2 or 3 1:1 sessions with either a coach or experienced instructor, a zoom group session to talk through kit, theory, etc, and a final session with a coach who will assess if he is happy.

    We are in the odd position that we have a few coaches but also a few instructors who are very experienced and who were due to do their level 1 coach qualification but covid got in the way. As a club we had also been in advznced talks with two local schools about after school archery clubs to really boost our youth work and we therefore have a good stock of junior beginner kit, portable targets, etc.
    Last edited by campwarden; 22-05-2020 at 12:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Would it not be easier for users to buy and wear gloves for archery?
    It's difficult to take a glove off without touching it. So without a glove you have to wash your hands. With a glove you have to wash your hands and the glove.

    The difficulty with shared bows isn't the hands, it's that if you're doing it properly the string should be touching your face.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
    The difficulty with shared bows isn't the hands, it's that if you're doing it properly the string should be touching your face.

    I have visions of some, sorry, scout instructors trying to avoid the face contact - there are enough kids who struggle to hold the string against their face - they actually fight against any guidance... Ho well, looks like Have-a-go will be a long time away for now, so perhaps not so much of an issue. IS

    Same applies with air rifles...
    Ewan Scott

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    I am starting to work up some ideas of what we can realistically do that kids will get involved with. I am thinking of the activities that have worked in the past and that hold interest. This rules out map reading exercises/ orienteering with our lot.

    Archery - but we need to extend our range of equipment and allocate people to equipment and consider our range procedures
    Shooting -
    Firestaff - as long as everyone has their own firestaff - we are not far off that.
    Poi - again - they need their own poi.
    Some circus skills are possible, but not those requiring physical support such as the Unicycle, Pedalgogo and Rolla Bolla.
    Kayaking and Canoeing are possible, with experienced kids - no rescues, all capsizes will be swim to shore jobs.
    Conservation work might be possible.

    We could do music appreciation - which we often used to close with, but with people social distancing.

    A movie night is possible - we can use a projector against a white wall and have seats distanced by 2 metres. ( I just don't know if it would work). But what movie keeps 10 year olds and 16 year olds entertained ( whilst complying with censorship rules)

    Similarly, we could do a concert night, with a "live" performance displayed on the wall. - But again, which band? What type of music?

    Games wise I think that we are looking at rounders type activity, French cricket,

    Out of the question just now would be ladders, round the barrel, tug of war type games and anything that involved physical contact.


    Distance hikes are a maybe, but the chances of them keeping social distance are close to zero.

    Whatever we do, the parents have to be on board and be happy about their kids taking part

    We could do solo cooking - I probably have enough gas and paraffin stoves and trangias
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Nerf E2281 Laser Ops 2 pack Combat Blaster https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B076JGYZ..._qjLYEbHB6YK52

    These are relatively cheap, don't fire any actual projectiles, and could be good fun for socially distanced wise games...

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  19. #28
    ASL and YLUL wealdbrook's Avatar
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    The problem is that we don't know when, or in what form, we will be able to do things.
    However based on what one hears of other countries, the latest views that the peak infection may have been earlier, etc. here is a prediction - you are welcome to make yours and we can see who is right.
    By the end of August the guidance will be:
    - no physical contact with non family members unless essential for medical treatment, support or safety,
    - close proximity (less than 2 metres) should be avoided and not last longer than 5 minutes,
    - anyone who thinks they may have symptoms must wear a mask and self isolate where possible,
    - large gatherings - over 100 - are not allowed unless there is "crowd control" to maintain a 1m (preferably 2m) separation.

    Over to you.
    John Alexander,
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    Cycling is one way to maintain distance. If you're within 2m, unless you are experienced at riding in a peloton you are going to crash in pretty short order!

  21. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wealdbrook View Post
    The problem is that we don't know when, or in what form, we will be able to do things.
    However based on what one hears of other countries, the latest views that the peak infection may have been earlier, etc. here is a prediction - you are welcome to make yours and we can see who is right.
    By the end of August the guidance will be:
    - no physical contact with non family members unless essential for medical treatment, support or safety,
    - close proximity (less than 2 metres) should be avoided and not last longer than 5 minutes,
    - anyone who thinks they may have symptoms must wear a mask and self isolate where possible,
    - large gatherings - over 100 - are not allowed unless there is "crowd control" to maintain a 1m (preferably 2m) separation.

    Over to you.
    I think that , in general we can look at the Scottish plans and essentially we have what will apply in England -plus of minus here and there.

    We might go with face coverings, sanitisers available, deep cleaning schedules etc..

    I am expecting some sort of activity before September - but Social Distancing will remain a medium to long term issue.

    The point that worries me a little is that in England, at least, there has been no official guidance to youth services, none, not a word. that suggests that youth activity is very low down o the list of priorities. So, we may get an all clear for kayaking, but not for youth group meetings.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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