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Thread: Planning for AFTER Lockdown

  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Does make you wonder about some people and what world they live in and where they have been for the past six months!

    Why are they asking about Christmas post? Do they not realise that Christmas is 3 months away yet and a hell of a lot can happen in those three months in the current situation, potentially making anything you tell them now and any plans you make about Christmas Post completely redundant!

    Given where we are I don't think anybody should be planning anything for 3 weeks out, let alone 3 months!
    Yeah.

    I think they've taken the notion that we may not be starting back until things go green literally. (Although I did say if there was a loosening of the rules around SD'ing, we might restart.) As you say, who knows where we'll be by then.

    There are a lot of old folk here who live on their own, I think their intent in asking was decent. But gosh, if we were in the middle or a resurgence... It could be christmas cards of doom being delivered...

    Yikes...

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  3. #512
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    One local event that apparently is still on, is the remembrance sunday parade where all the scout sections, the guides, and other youth groups, as well as royal british legion members etc parade from the legion to the war Memorial fur a short service and back again.
    If it's on there will be a lot of local pressure to participate, but at the same time unless there a major change in the covid situation I can't see how attending a big public event would fit in with the covid scout guidance.

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Interesting to see local sports groups posting pictures of groups of 40 or so youngsters all bundling together for group photos.

    To be honest. i think i prefer our method and we will be judge right by history but it is very frustrating

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    One local event that apparently is still on, is the remembrance sunday parade where all the scout sections, the guides, and other youth groups, as well as royal british legion members etc parade from the legion to the war Memorial fur a short service and back again.
    If it's on there will be a lot of local pressure to participate, but at the same time unless there a major change in the covid situation I can't see how attending a big public event would fit in with the covid scout guidance.
    The Royal British Legion have not yet set out their plans for the 2020 Cenotaph parade in London - see https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get...mbrance-sunday --- I dont see it is very likely that it will happen in its usual form, too many people close together (even outside) from all over the country. So I doubt if many local Remembrance parades will happen in their usual form either.
    “A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room.” Baden-Powell

  7. #515
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    Planning for AFTER Lockdown

    Latest from Scouts.org.uk

    "Update for Scotland only, removing indoor activities from Amber and camping from Yellow based on updated guidance from Scottish Government."


    “From 10 September 2020, Scotland moves to Yellow readiness level. Members in Scotland have been emailed this information on what this means.”
    Last edited by London Scouter; 10-09-2020 at 02:02 PM.

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  9. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by London Scouter View Post
    Latest from Scouts.org.uk

    "Update for Scotland only, removing indoor activities from Amber and camping from Yellow based on updated guidance from Scottish Government."


    “From 10 September 2020, Scotland moves to Yellow readiness level. Members in Scotland have been emailed this information on what this means.”
    Just read it.

    Group size up to 30, indoor scouting allowed.

    One could say, with 30 instead of 12 Scouts, that puts leaders at even more risk of having to isolate, (not going to say Covid itself...) All the stats are still rising here, so it's an interesting move. It comes across as being a bit tight to be honest.

    Indoor activities are now allowed, but outdoor activities are still preferred and should be encouraged.

    Numbers change to a total party size of 30 and this includes young people and adults – this applies both indoors and outdoors. Any Young Leaders are also included in this total, but please remember that Young Leaders do not count towards ratios. (The increase to 30 outdoors is also permitted in Amber)

    Indoor activities will carry more potential risk so numbers must be adjusted accordingly to allow social distancing to be maintained, among those aged 12+.

    Young people under 12 (Beavers, Cubs and younger Scouts) do not need to socially distance but older Scouts, Explorers and Adults should maintain social distancing currently at 2m.

    Scout Networks can meet in groups up to 15 and be supported by up to 5 leaders but all must socially distance.

    All adults must socially distance from all young people (even those under 12), where it is not possible for a short period then a face covering must be worn.

    No gatherings of more that 30 are permitted for any reason and multiple groups must continue to be at least 25m away from each other.

    Adults don’t need to wear a face covering when delivering activities – unless social distancing can’t be maintained.

    Young People over 12 need only wear a face covering if social distancing can’t be maintained e.g. when moving from one activity to another. Social distancing should still be the norm.

    Consideration should be given to age group bubbles to reduce group sizes, for example the Scout Section might choose to meet with 10- and 11-year olds as one bubble and 12-14-year olds for another but that will depend on factors such as Troop size, hall size etc.

    Whilst it is now possible for leaders to move between Sections on the same day, this should be limited to avoid contact with too many households and increase the risk.
    Question. If under normal circumstances we wrote an RA which said we'd be adhering to the same social distancing rules, what would the reaction be from parents etc?

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    Just had this from GirlGuides

    Returning to face-to-face guiding indoors
    We’re pleased to let you know that from 24 September you’ll be able to meet face-to-face indoors - if you have completed and signed off your risk assessment and your local area or national government allows it. Although we’re in an ever-changing environment – with Government restrictions and rules adapting to the spread of coronavirus – we want to make sure you all had the resources you need to return to indoor face-to-face guiding when you can.

    We know that lots of you have questions about the most recent update to the number of people meeting in England, namely the cap of six people meeting. We’re happy to tell you that the Government has confirmed that this does not apply to youth organisations like ours. You can continue to plan to return to indoor and outdoor meetings if this works for you. Here are the resources you need to prep for indoor guiding:

    • There is a new risk assessment for you. Please give your commissioner two weeks to sign it off.
    • We have a new procedure which is the same process used to re-start guiding outdoors.
    • And a parent letter template that you can adapt to suit your unit’s needs.

    But also very interesting their subs increase is only £1.70 so TSA really are either in much deeper trouble or management is worse

    Annual subscriptions 2021
    It’s never easy to talk about money, especially at this time. We’re collectively living through a global crisis. Like many other organisations, Girlguiding’s activity and services have been badly hit. Our deficit is now over £4m and we anticipate there could be further losses in 2021. We’re acting now to secure the future of Girlguiding.

    Our members tell us about the positive difference Girlguiding makes to their lives. We remain committed to offering those nearly 400,000 girls and young women the life-changing opportunities that the best of guiding brings – and to supporting our volunteers.

    We’ve looked at our financial position to keep guiding alive for the future so that girls and young women enjoy the opportunities and all that guiding has to offer. We’ve also looked at what essential services we need to provide to run the organisation. We recognise that the situation throughout all levels is challenging and that the finances at country/region, county, division, district and unit are impacted too.
    The Board of Trustees have looked at Girlguiding HQ levy subscriptions for 2021 and considered:

    • Views and feedback from the membership
    • The difficult financial impact Covid-19 is having on families
    • That we’re currently not meeting regularly face-to-face making it harder to receive direct subs at the unit level

    The Board agreed to make a limited increase in Girlguiding HQ subscriptions of £1.70 for 2021. The Girlguiding HQ subscriptions makes up 30% of our income.

    We understand that many parents will be unaware of the Girlguiding HQ subscriptions and will pay more than this per term/per year. This is because this amount of the subscription is only one part and the rest is made up of your district, division, county or country and region levels.

    We know for some units it won’t be easy but if you’re in financial difficulties please speak to your commissioner. They are there to help you. We’ve been talking to countries and regions and county commissioners about the impact of subscriptions and they’re looking at how they can reduce costs at their level.
    Dave Ralphs
    Yarnton Scout Group (Treasurer)
    DofE Advisor & District Exec Member - Oxford Spires District
    http://yarntonscouts.org.uk/

    I work for O2, any posts are my own personal views & do not represent O2

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  12. #518
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    Always interesting to see what other similar organisations are doing, reading that Girlguide statement though does induce some odd uncomfortable feeling in the way its phrased, a similar feeling to that which you get form The Scout Associations oddly over upbeat overly friendly statements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    Always interesting to see what other similar organisations are doing, reading that Girlguide statement though does induce some odd uncomfortable feeling in the way its phrased, a similar feeling to that which you get form The Scout Associations oddly over upbeat overly friendly statements.
    The use of contractions in formal communication by TSA hacks me off, personally. Mind you so does "guiding" - it's a proper noun, "Guiding" is the correct way to type it, unless they're also talking about, for example, mountain guides, which I'm sure they aren't.

    Scouting did that for a while and changed it when they realised just how stupid it looked.

    I think I blame Parkrun, which I will always type with a capital P because it too is a proper noun. It gives me great pleasure that Wikipedia will not give into this.

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  15. #520
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    So Scouting is exempt form the rule of 6, instead we can have upto 15 youth members and 5 adults inside and out.
    With dark evenings now pretty much upon us, and outdoor activities encouraged, will the public and local police ( especially the PCSOs ) know about this exemption as they spot upto 15 youths on a torchlit scavenger hunt/widegame, or a walk?
    one of the outdoor activities planned with the Scouts will take us past where we encountered an angry farmer with the Cubs a year ago or so who was angered by the fact we dared to take a group of Cubs along a public right of way through his field at 7pm in the evening without seeking full written permission ( which would have been denied )

  16. #521
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    The public probably not but the police *should*! In any event, if to was me I would be speaking to the local community officer to make sure they are aware, especially given your previous experience with Mr Angry Farmer!
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


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  18. #522
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    Updated guidance on district events, Remembrance, bonfires and singing

    https://cms.scouts.org.uk/media/1090...ty-centres.pdf

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  20. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by London Scouter View Post
    Updated guidance on district events, Remembrance, bonfires and singing

    https://cms.scouts.org.uk/media/1090...ty-centres.pdf


    I understand that the government agrees that "youth work" is an important area that needs special consideration.

    However, given the current increase in infection rates, the growing localised lockdowns ( stricter in some ways than those announced by Boris on the 22nd), we seriously need to look at what we are doing. Should we be opening the doors, and creating risks that are not really needed?

    Is scouting "youth work"? I view with quite some amusement, some people using the "youth work" label as a reason to restart scouting activities, in the face of an ongoing pandemic.

    As Pa_broon alluded to previously, the kids (we all have) will survive. the lack of scouting has not made a massive hole in the lives of many - they have filled the gap by doing other things - usually videogames. We, the scouting we do is not critical to their wellbeing, it is NOT youth work - holy moley, if some of these Leaders using "youth work" as reason to open up were to be faced with real "youth work" they would run a mile.

    We run a pleasant hobby, where from time to time we have the odd real "youth work" incident - though from observation many appear not to have these, either that, or they ignore them as it is not what they signed up for.

    Let's be clear, youth workers deal with kids on the edge of an abyss, kids at risk, both at home and in society. Youth workers create a mentor, a point of contact, for kids who are really at risk. OPbviously, they cannot discuss details, and my colleagues are very circumspect in what they divulge -

    But how many of us have had to drop everything to intervene to protect a 16 year old girl from being arrested for prostitution?
    How many of us have had to run Chlamydia testing?
    How many of us have gone out and done street work ( as Scouters) to prevent local lads from doing more damage?
    How many of us have had to run real knife crime prevention sessions - as in kids off the street who are carrying for protection?
    How many of us have had to teach teenagers how to cook beans on toast so they didn't have to go home to an abusive parent?
    How many of us go out and deal with homeless kids?
    How many of us have to work with the Probation Service on a daily basis (as Scout Leaders)?

    That is what I believe is meant by "youth work". It is a deception for us to include ourselves in that category if all we do is play nice with decent balanced kids.
    Ewan Scott

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    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    I fear, Ewan, that we will disagree here again. Is Scouting worth the (still relatively low) risk of causing a covid outbreak if it helps with the mental health of just a few children? I'd say yes.

    Scouting might not, usually, be "Youth Work" by its purest definition. But its got to be as worthwhile as football practice, etc - and most sports are still going.

    There is an old argument, maybe more valid in some places than in others, that Scouting keeps young people off the streets, out of the parks, out of the bus shelters for a night each week. Clearly thats not going to be the case for all (indeed many of our Scouts were the more sheltered kids in the village!) but i think there could be a valid argument that it is safer for kids to be in covid-secure organised provision than hanging around unsupervised with their mates outdoors, or at each others houses.

    Only local leaders are really in a position to judge what the benefit of their group is, and perhaps also to judge the risk. A group meeting in Torbay, (case rate of 6 per 100,000 in the last week) would probably consider the risk far lower than a group in Kirklees with 86 cases per 100,000 in the past week.

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    I agree with you Campwarden, the risk is very low of catching covid at a meeting (particularly when outside) and the risk of getting anything serious is only a small chance of that for majority of our members & adults.

    It is really important to consider mental and physical health through this pandemic, plus put the situation into perspective. Before Covid, 18 people committed suicide each day (mostly men aged 20-45) and I'm sure that has increased. There are also other deaths which are being hidden under the rug as a result of the lockdown scenario.

    For me, when you compare these to the number of Covid deaths, then consider a large percentage of covid deaths may not have been directly caused by Covid and then take into consideration most were elderly, then yes the risk is worth it with a few sensible precautions.

    If were weren't doing scouting, then our members would be hanging out with mates, where I expect the risk will be far higher with no precautions at all!
    Last edited by Simon11; 23-09-2020 at 01:56 PM.

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