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Thread: Planning for AFTER Lockdown

  1. #1186
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I now think it would be better to recruit someone to do the RA's and someone to actually lead.
    I agree, and it is possible.

    I don't know about your demographic but I know of a group in the next District with a AGSL who uses a wheelchair and must be home by 7pm every evening because that's when the carer comes to prep her for the evening (sorry that's probably not the best description!)

    She does all the paperwork, talks to all parents at the start of each meeting and is available for zoom meetings after 8pm any night of the week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutgamer View Post
    I agree, and it is possible.

    I don't know about your demographic but I know of a group in the next District with a AGSL who uses a wheelchair and must be home by 7pm every evening because that's when the carer comes to prep her for the evening (sorry that's probably not the best description!)

    She does all the paperwork, talks to all parents at the start of each meeting and is available for zoom meetings after 8pm any night of the week.
    The only reservation I'd have, is I'm not sure about the efficacy of having someone do RA's for activities they may not be familiar with, and it won't square the circle of expectation versus creation - some RA reviewers still don't know what an RA should actually cover, (for NA RA's...)

    Got to say, I was looking at the risk assessments Facebook group this morning. If you were looking for an anti-advert for leadership in scouting - it would serve perfectly. I was also thinking, while I don't monitor all online scouty stuff, it's a very busy group, which I think sends a message all of its own.

    Even the Covid return RA's should be a lot simpler than they are. I'm no longer sure who volunteering in scouts is supposed to appeal to.

  3. #1188
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post

    Even the Covid return RA's should be a lot simpler than they are. I'm no longer sure who volunteering in scouts is supposed to appeal to.
    Well, I created a very basic Covid RA MoO for start back. I asked one of our team who works in healthcare if there was anything to add. She said that we had covered all the points that they cover - it wasn't arduous.

    What will be challenging is the Covid RA for various games and activities - Shared kit is out - so that creates issues, working together less than 1,5 metres is an issue. Much of what we did in Scouts/ Navigators will breach the initial Covid RA, and in my mind that is a gamechanger - literally. It will be interesting watching the photographs posted on 1st FB showing the "covid-safe activities"
    Ewan Scott

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    As leaders we have decided to go for operating instructions for broad areas of activity addressing the safety issues but in a logical structure - preparation, briefing, activity and clear-up. We are going to ask the Exec to endorse our approach. Trying to keep it sensible and useful for newer leaders or parent helpers.
    John Alexander,
    ASL and Assistant Webmaster
    1st Weald Brook
    http://www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

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  6. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Well, I created a very basic Covid RA MoO for start back. I asked one of our team who works in healthcare if there was anything to add. She said that we had covered all the points that they cover - it wasn't arduous.

    What will be challenging is the Covid RA for various games and activities - Shared kit is out - so that creates issues, working together less than 1,5 metres is an issue. Much of what we did in Scouts/ Navigators will breach the initial Covid RA, and in my mind that is a gamechanger - literally. It will be interesting watching the photographs posted on 1st FB showing the "covid-safe activities"
    This seems to be an area of confusion with our district team - the cross-over between what would be on any activity RA and what should be on the Covid RA.

    The Covid RA shouldn't have anything 'activity-specific' on it. So shared kit is mentioned on the Covid RA, but only in a general sense as it pertains to all activities. The specifics would (should) be on the activity RA - if at all, since really, it's already covered on the Covid RA.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    This seems to be an area of confusion with our district team - the cross-over between what would be on any activity RA and what should be on the Covid RA.

    The Covid RA shouldn't have anything 'activity-specific' on it. So shared kit is mentioned on the Covid RA, but only in a general sense as it pertains to all activities. The specifics would (should) be on the activity RA - if at all, since really, it's already covered on the Covid RA.
    Essentially, if an activity cannot meet the first "gate" of the Covid RA, then it needs no specific RA because you can't do it. Simple, but perhaps challenging.

    I will do the RA for Bulldog when we can actually play it.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





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  8. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    This seems to be an area of confusion with our district team - the cross-over between what would be on any activity RA and what should be on the Covid RA.

    The Covid RA shouldn't have anything 'activity-specific' on it. So shared kit is mentioned on the Covid RA, but only in a general sense as it pertains to all activities. The specifics would (should) be on the activity RA - if at all, since really, it's already covered on the Covid RA.
    At the moment I would see an activity as having/ needing additional COVID risks and mitigations added to its operating procedures/RA. COVID is a potential additional risk for an activity and should be covered as such. The restart COVID RA is more “general” (odd thing to say about a RA), it’s more covering arriving, general behaviour etc.

  9. #1193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    At the moment I would see an activity as having/ needing additional COVID risks and mitigations added to its operating procedures/RA. COVID is a potential additional risk for an activity and should be covered as such. The restart COVID RA is more “general” (odd thing to say about a RA), it’s more covering arriving, general behaviour etc.
    That's not my interpretation of it, and I think we need to avoid it because the RA's (where we are) are already so out of focus - and long - there is an additional risk of people not reading them properly (or at all). I also think we need to be careful about conflating procedures with RA's - they're not the same thing. The reason for the problems we're experiencing, is down that very conflation.

    I suppose as well, (and this is another thing which has cropped up), do we need to include things on RA's that we've decided not to do? Some say yes, I'd say not.

    We have a risk in our RA (as most do I'd imagine) about shared equipment and the cleaning of it. There's also a line in there saying we've considered whether or not the activities are suitable in the context of Covid restrictions. Is it wise to repeat any of that in the activity RA?

    I'd say not. It takes more (finite) leader's time to put it together and takes more time for people to read.

    An example of that is that the guy on the Scouting RA's FB page is still touting the 50 page RA/procedure manual and people are seriously handing it round expecting people to read and digest it all.

    Edit: TL/DR - what Ewan said.
    Last edited by pa_broon74; 04-04-2021 at 08:44 PM.

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  11. #1194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    At the moment I would see an activity as having/ needing additional COVID risks and mitigations added to its operating procedures/RA. COVID is a potential additional risk for an activity and should be covered as such. The restart COVID RA is more “general” (odd thing to say about a RA), it’s more covering arriving, general behaviour etc.
    Our approved Covid RAs cover how Coivd will affect activities and games in a general way so maintaining social distance, either not sharing equipment or sanitizing it and hands before and after shared equipment is used.

    Obviously you have to think how that applies to each activity or game you think of doing but the methodology is already apprroved and I don't see the need to add the Covid elements to every activity RA as that just seems like doubling up to me.

    Running acitivites in a covid safe way basically means either running the acitivities completely differently to how you normally would or even doing completely different activities.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL
    2002 - 2018 AESL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  12. #1195
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    My pal (who's also an ASL) has just been in touch. Apparently most of the kids in the village are now isolating - there's be an outbreak!

    The under 11 football team, Easter tennis camp, and p4's and 5's are all in cancelled/in quarantine, and a family five doors down from our hall all tested positive.

    Oops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    That's not my interpretation of it, and I think we need to avoid it because the RA's (where we are) are already so out of focus - and long - there is an additional risk of people not reading them properly (or at all). I also think we need to be careful about conflating procedures with RA's - they're not the same thing. The reason for the problems we're experiencing, is down that very conflation.

    I suppose as well, (and this is another thing which has cropped up), do we need to include things on RA's that we've decided not to do? Some say yes, I'd say not.

    We have a risk in our RA (as most do I'd imagine) about shared equipment and the cleaning of it. There's also a line in there saying we've considered whether or not the activities are suitable in the context of Covid restrictions. Is it wise to repeat any of that in the activity RA?

    I'd say not. It takes more (finite) leader's time to put it together and takes more time for people to read.

    An example of that is that the guy on the Scouting RA's FB page is still touting the 50 page RA/procedure manual and people are seriously handing it round expecting people to read and digest it all.

    Edit: TL/DR - what Ewan said.
    I wouldn’t put a mitigation in which says don’t do an activity due to COVID precautions, we’d just not do that activity, that would be part of planning, not of operating.

    As for repeating items, there are already some risks which appear in different operating procedures/RA, COVID ones are no different though I can see people can have different views on this. I can only go with my views and how we will do it. It does/will not result in 50 page RAs, the procedures we have drawn up to date are a couple of pages (max) on how to do an activity and a table of risks and mitigations, which can come to another couple of pages. Short, focused and easily read.

    As the TSA hasn’t specified a way of doing your RA it will come down to how you, your team and possibly your district want to do things. I’m happy with our approach, nobody’s objected to it so we will follow it and argue against any changes unless those changes make life safer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Our approved Covid RAs cover how Coivd will affect activities and games in a general way so maintaining social distance, either not sharing equipment or sanitizing it and hands before and after shared equipment is used.

    Obviously you have to think how that applies to each activity or game you think of doing but the methodology is already apprroved and I don't see the need to add the Covid elements to every activity RA as that just seems like doubling up to me.

    Running acitivites in a covid safe way basically means either running the acitivities completely differently to how you normally would or even doing completely different activities.
    Our NOPs (normal operating procedures) have had a bit added to say we do the activity following government COVID guidance, in some there are additional specific risks we have identified which we felt should be assessed and mitigated within the activity. It was a matter of balance between rather COVID RA and the NOP. Some may view this as over the top but we all felt it was good the work through the process and add when needed.

  14. #1197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big George View Post
    I wouldn’t put a mitigation in which says don’t do an activity due to COVID precautions, we’d just not do that activity, that would be part of planning, not of operating.

    As for repeating items, there are already some risks which appear in different operating procedures/RA, COVID ones are no different though I can see people can have different views on this. I can only go with my views and how we will do it. It does/will not result in 50 page RAs, the procedures we have drawn up to date are a couple of pages (max) on how to do an activity and a table of risks and mitigations, which can come to another couple of pages. Short, focused and easily read.

    As the TSA hasn’t specified a way of doing your RA it will come down to how you, your team and possibly your district want to do things. I’m happy with our approach, nobody’s objected to it so we will follow it and argue against any changes unless those changes make life safer.
    Yup.

    While we're no where near the 50 page limit, as long as the risks listed are actually risks, and if there is repetition (because you're quite right, it can be a grey area), as long as it doesn't result in overly long RA's that people may not read...

    We submitted our Covid RA on the 15th of March. Still haven't got it okay'd.

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    Didn't want to note this in the 'being positive' thread, because it's not positive.

    It occurred to me though, that much of the negativity I've felt for TSA has been because we've not been doing a lot of the positive stuff we normally do. That might seem obvious to some, but I think when you get too close to things, it could be missed. I was aware of this on some level, but being honest, my volunteering was always 50/50. 50% of the time was with the young folk, the other 50% was doing other things for the group, (emphasis on for 'for the group' - not for TSA.)

    Obviously during lock down, it was only the background stuff, the not-positive 50% that was happening - which clouded things.

    While it was great to see the young folk, and be reminded about why we do what we do, TSA should be in no doubt - speaking for myself at least, I haven't forgotten what they've done. I haven't forgotten the way I get spoken to now by 'line management', or that the burden of administrative responsibility is so much higher, and that 50/50 split won't be a 50/50 split if we ever get back to normal.

    TSA are still on notice.

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