Planning for AFTER Lockdown

**Simon11** · 16-02-2021, 10:37 AM

Gosh, it is very interesting looking at the US Scouting policy on covid where most things can go ahead with minor adjustments at the moment! They are on the complete other side of the fence in handling covid compared to UK scouting!

https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/

And no risk assessment required at all to restart and have in person meetings/ camps with covid guidelines!

**pa_broon74** · 16-02-2021, 10:57 AM

We've taken our decisions about how we'd do things somewhat independently of government advice.

To be honest, it now looks to me as if these piecemeal lock downs have done very little except prolong things. They're not sharp enough and they're not deep enough. So in the end, they just fritter round the edges of the problem. They're essentially the vacillating answer to a serious problem given by a vacillating leadership. I count the Scottish Government in that too - although not to the same extent. I think they would have done more if they were able.

When we said we'd return at Easter, we thought that was a good bit out there and would give us a fair wedge of safety to work with. But nope. I still think that might be too early.

Leaders are in the same boat as teachers - possibly worse due to the mix of kids involved. (Although that probably evens itself out due to time spent together.) Maybe Beavers and Cubs could return. But Scouts and Explorers? For as long as social distancing is required - I just can't see it.

Of course, it'll depend on how you run your troop unit. But if you are at all free-flowing, it probably won't work.

Other than that. Given the amount of paperwork you have to do for a normal camp now, add in the Covid stuff - doing all that for a camp that might not happen? It's a nope from me.

**dsheehan** · 16-02-2021, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Simon11

Gosh, it is very interesting looking at the US Scouting policy on covid where most things can go ahead with minor adjustments at the moment! They are on the complete other side of the fence in handling covid compared to UK scouting!

https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/

And no risk assessment required at all to restart and have in person meetings/ camps with covid guidelines!

We had an online meet up with a BSA Cub Pack last week- we all came away very jealous of how much they can still do.

We can only dream!!

**pa_broon74** · 16-02-2021, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Simon11

Gosh, it is very interesting looking at the US Scouting policy on covid where most things can go ahead with minor adjustments at the moment! They are on the complete other side of the fence in handling covid compared to UK scouting!

https://www.scouting.org/coronavirus/covid-19-faq/

And no risk assessment required at all to restart and have in person meetings/ camps with covid guidelines!

I think people think America and the UK are similar. They're not. The levels of libertarianism in the US is so much higher than it is here.

On the one hand it's refreshing, because people who have the intellectual where-with-all to do things safely, can do so. But on the other... Trump...

**big chris** · 16-02-2021, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by campwarden

That's a bit pessimistic Chris. Realiatically I can't see any harm in planning something local and holding out until either a few weeks before or until tsa/nya specifically say it won't happen.

Might not be a traditional full scale summer camp but as long as people have saved the date it should be easy enough to put something reasonable together with a couple of weeks notice.

That was kind of my thinking but we all have our own families that are expecting a decent holiday that week. I also have to consider the 6 days annual leave and the best use of it. (i need the friday off before camp to prep for it)

I can't see how camping will be allowed and i'm not using up all that leave on some socially distanced poor excuse for scouting day camp stuff that doesn't let my own family enjoy the week properly as well.

**Bushfella** · 16-02-2021, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by pa_broon74

I think people think America and the UK are similar. They're not. The levels of libertarianism in the US is so much higher than it is here.

On the one hand it's refreshing, because people who have the intellectual where-with-all to do things safely, can do so. But on the other... Trump...

I don't think libertarianism has anything to do with this at all. The one thing that you can say about America is that it is largely far from libertarian. It is a society built upon, ironically, imposed legislation.

The fact that BSA have such a relaxed approach is probably more to do with their inherent established conservative ideology than any sense of libertarianism.

**campwarden** · 16-02-2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by big chris

That was kind of my thinking but we all have our own families that are expecting a decent holiday that week. I also have to consider the 6 days annual leave and the best use of it. (i need the friday off before camp to prep for it)

I can't see how camping will be allowed and i'm not using up all that leave on some socially distanced poor excuse for scouting day camp stuff that doesn't let my own family enjoy the week properly as well.

Thats fair enough, Chris. I guess I'm lucky that due to my daughters age, and the fact that my other half only works part time in a school and has the potential to swap shifts with her job share, we can (and will) take holidays during term time at the moment. Her job share colleague is in a similar situation, so the plan is that my other half will do a whole week one week, and her colleague will do a whole week another week. Running my own business I can take as much time off as I can afford! Ironically of course this last year I've been able to take lots and lots of time off but we haven't been able to go away much. I've been in that position so long that I do forget that most people have a set number of days annual leave to take each year.

If we end up running camping at the archery club site this summer (under the 28 day rule... Nice little money earner) we will probably volunteer to "warden" every other weekend. Not exactly a holiday but at least a chance to get out camping without it costing too much!

Even without swapping shifts we can get away with Wednesday lunchtime to Sunday for long weekend breaks, which I hope we can make the most of next year at least while my daughter is still below school age. Our first proper trip away as a family (other than a visit to my parents and two 2-night stays with friends who run a bnb in devon) is booked for June in the hope that we can go by then.

**Dr_Pepper** · 16-02-2021, 02:02 PM

We've never missed a meeting yet, being at the hut whenever we were allowed and zoom otherwise. Zoom is pretty boring, especially since the kids have been on zoom all day already with school, but we've been doing our best. When things get too bad, we just play 'among us', which the kids can't get enough of.

But worse the 15 socially distanced thing is potentially even more boring as we're going to run out of fun things to do within that restriction fast. And if it's every other child having to self isolate over and over again it just makes it so much worse (we'd be splitting the troop in two and if half the 15 can't/don't attend then its super low numbers straight away)

I'm a strong believer that Mr Whitty and his team should determine about the overall lockdown not myself or any other internet wags. But I do hope that NYA and scouting don't put up any extra barriers to entry within that.

**pa_broon74** · 16-02-2021, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bushfella

I don't think libertarianism has anything to do with this at all. The one thing that you can say about America is that it is largely far from libertarian. It is a society built upon, ironically, imposed legislation.

The fact that BSA have such a relaxed approach is probably more to do with their inherent established conservative ideology than any sense of libertarianism.

I disagree, it's in their constitution, of which is still relevant, and they are exceedingly proud. I think here (in the UK) we conflate libertarianism with conservatism more than they do in America. Social conservatism is relative/specific, liberty isn't, or not anything like as much. I think American libertarianism speaks to individual freedom in all things, whether it's if a scout master wants his troop to meet, or whether he (or she) wants to have AR-15's in the house.

I think conservatism in American scouting refers to (and affects) other things.

**Sparkgap** · 16-02-2021, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by pa_broon74

......I think American libertarianism speaks to individual freedom in all things, whether it's if a scout master wants his troop to meet, or whether he (or she) wants to have AR-15's in the house.
I think conservatism in American scouting refers to (and affects) other things.

The problem arises when insisting on those freedoms leads to probably avoidable issues, like how many people are going to die of covid due to their 'freedom' to carry on as usual!

**pa_broon74** · 16-02-2021, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sparkgap

The problem arises when insisting on those freedoms leads to probably avoidable issues, like how many people are going to die of covid due to their 'freedom' to carry on as usual!

At least they're honest about it. Unfettered libertarianism, a fair bit of social conservatism in the mix, and they're (mostly) unapologetic about it, (north eastern states perhaps to one side...)

Meanwhile, here, it's a half-arsed compromise that's ended up being the worst of both worlds.

(For the avoidance of doubt, I'd prefer the NZ/Aus model of dealing with it.)

**London Scouter** · 22-02-2021, 07:54 AM

From the previews of this afternoon's announcement by the PM, it looks like outdoor Scouting in England could resume sooner rather than later. Will have to start doing some planning!

**campwarden** · 22-02-2021, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by London Scouter

From the previews of this afternoon's announcement by the PM, it looks like outdoor Scouting in England could resume sooner rather than later. Will have to start doing some planning!

As much as I'm usually more optimistic than most on deadlines to reopen... I'd wait another 12 hours before starting the planning. See exactly what the organ grinder says.

The "leaks" in the papers today seem similar enough to probably be true but you can never guarantee what he will say until he says it.

**London Scouter** · 22-02-2021, 08:33 AM

Oh yes I agree, but I hadn't even really started thinking about the next batch of programmes because it still seemed such a remote prospect. Suddenly it's less remote.

I'd also be reasonably content if Scouting didn't return till Easter (ie after the switch to British Summer Time) - the extra hour of daylight will make all the difference for decent open-air programmes without faffing around with lighting etc.

**Simon11** · 22-02-2021, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by London Scouter

From the previews of this afternoon's announcement by the PM, it looks like outdoor Scouting in England could resume sooner rather than later. Will have to start doing some planning!

What do you mean? We are potentially looking at 29th March for reopening of scouting, however this is the start of the Easter weekend, so majority of groups will just return after Easter? The 8th March make clear it is only activities run by schools?

It’s expected to include four steps, with step one split into two parts – part one on 8 March and part two on 29 March.
Step one, part one (from 8 March): All schools expected to open with outdoor after-school sports and activities allowed. Recreation in a public space - such as a park - could be allowed between two people, meaning they would be allowed to sit down for a coffee, drink or picnic
Step one, part two (from 29 March): Outdoor gatherings of either six people or two households are expected be allowed, including in private gardens. Outdoor sports facilities such as tennis or basketball courts could reopen and organised adult and children's sport, such as grassroots football, could also return.